Controlled psyche

Post by Lorne
I had a look at the Meckstroth/Zia system card and it says 'might psyche
in controlled sitations, eg 1M-2M'
Is it legal to agree this ? I thought it was illegal to psyche if
partner was likely to expect it.

I'd like a second oppinion, but on the spur of the moment I'd say
it is legal - because the opponents are informed of the
agreement.

--
/Bertel

ais523

2019-09-25 10:36:08 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

I'd like a second oppinion, but on the spur of the moment I'd say
it is legal - because the opponents are informed of the
agreement.

Generally speaking, if something is part of the system, it isn't a
psyche. It might be an illlegal agreement, though, depending on what the
rules for agreements are.

In most jurisdictions, a call where one possible meaning is very
unexpected is alertable, so you'd have to let the opponents know what's
going on, e.g. "my partner expects me to respond as though they had a
bad invite in a major, but they might actually have some other hand".

The more general rule, though, is that the meaning your partner expects
for a call must be disclosed to the opponents; so making this sort of
controlled-situation psyche isn't legal if your partner knows it might
happen and the opponents don't. (On similar reasoning, if your partner
has no idea that the bid might be a psyche, the opponents don't need to
know either, as there's no partnership agreement that's being hidden.)

--
ais523

Bertel Lund Hansen

2019-09-26 11:54:52 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I'd like a second oppinion,

and now I have asked two international TD's.

There is no law against such an agreement, but note that it is
not a psyche - partner will not be surprised, and opponents are
informed.

It is, however, a special partner agreement, and an organisation
may regulate those. The Danish one (DBf) has not done so. I do
not know if other national organisations have done so.

When explaining the agrreement one should not use the word
"psyche" or "bluff". One might say:

It's a short suit trialbid, but sometimes it is false.

--
/Bertel

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2019-09-25 13:53:54 UTC

What do you believe a psychic raise to 2M could mean??

Carl

ais523

2019-09-25 14:05:35 UTC

What do you believe a psychic raise to 2M could mean??

I'd expect a psychic raise to 2M to have maybe 5 HCP and a total
misfit for partner's suit, with length in the other three suits.
Depending on system, your partner may be barred from raising to game on
any hand (some systems play 2M as purely pre-emptive, and describing
2M as a "controlled situation" makes me think this is one of them), and
the opponents will be tempted to protect, at which point they'll
almost certainly go too high trying to find the right suit.

--
ais523

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2019-09-25 21:13:53 UTC

Post by ais523

What do you believe a psychic raise to 2M could mean??

If I understand acbl rules, it is illegal to have the agreement that 1M - 2M ; 4M is barred.

Carl

Douglas Newlands

2019-09-25 21:33:26 UTC

What do you believe a psychic raise to 2M could mean??

Perhaps it means you can psyche the trial bid to try and put off the
defence to 4M which you will bid anyway.
Seems much like the psychic cue bids that Zia is known for on the way to
a slam which he is always bidding.

doug

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2019-09-26 01:45:14 UTC

What do you believe a psychic raise to 2M could mean??

Maybe. But psychic controls used to be forbidden.

Douglas Newlands

2019-09-26 04:59:27 UTC

What do you believe a psychic raise to 2M could mean??

Maybe. But psychic controls used to be forbidden.

But if the options are on a system card surely it's just
a multi-way bid and, in principle, no way different from
a multi 2D opener or an RCO 2 or TWERB or myxo or the like.

They are 10 a penny here. We don't protect the LOLs from
them; the LOLs are avid users of such things.
It seem to be different in those there United States tho!

doug

Hotzenplotz

2019-10-02 02:54:22 UTC