Tuesday hand (3). How to (not) bid the correct game

[Adam Lea]

Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln.

AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963

N E S W
P P P
1C P 1H P
2S P 3NT AP

I'm possibly a bit light with the diamond stop for leaping to 3NT, but I
wanted to tell partner I had a better than a dirt minimum for my
response, to avoid any possibility she will pass a 2NT rebid by me (she
may have a thin reverse). As soon as dummy comes down, I see we are in
the wrong game. One heart stop, a heart lead and two aces missing it the
two suits where tricks are available, means one down, when 5C is cold.
Another 12 imps out. Would it have been better for me to rebid 2NT or 3C
instead of leaping to 3NT?

[Co Wiersma]

Post by Adam Lea
Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln.
AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963
N E S W
P P P
1C P 1H P
2S P 3NT AP
I'm possibly a bit light with the diamond stop for leaping to 3NT, but I
wanted to tell partner I had a better than a dirt minimum for my
response, to avoid any possibility she will pass a 2NT rebid by me (she
may have a thin reverse). As soon as dummy comes down, I see we are in
the wrong game. One heart stop, a heart lead and two aces missing it the
two suits where tricks are available, means one down, when 5C is cold.
Another 12 imps out. Would it have been better for me to rebid 2NT or 3C
instead of leaping to 3NT?

The jump to 2S is not a reverse, its a jump.
A jump in a new suit is usually (best) regarded as forcing to game
The North hand is not strong enough to force to game
More so after a 1H response , suggesting the hands probably dont fit
well together

That being said, I would expect to end up in 3NT anyhow, and suffer the
same fate as you

Co Wiersma

[smn]

Post by Adam Lea
Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln.
AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963
N E S W
P P P
1C P 1H P
2S P 3NT AP
I'm possibly a bit light with the diamond stop for leaping to 3NT, but I
wanted to tell partner I had a better than a dirt minimum for my
response, to avoid any possibility she will pass a 2NT rebid by me (she
may have a thin reverse). As soon as dummy comes down, I see we are in
the wrong game. One heart stop, a heart lead and two aces missing it the
two suits where tricks are available, means one down, when 5C is cold.
Another 12 imps out. Would it have been better for me to rebid 2NT or 3C
instead of leaping to 3NT?

Gaah , 2s?? a jump shift reverse with 15hcp .Maybe he's woried you might pass 1s .Over 1s you would bid 1n (partner could have 3 spades ;partner doesn't know whether his heart void is good ,you could have pictures ,not AXXX .But it's imps Vulnerable .He bids 2c or 3c . With 2c you can raise to 3c ,with 3c you can bid 3n and partner should convert to 5c or 4c if he is worried about your heart pictures then you can bid 5c .
After 2c-3c partner might bid 4c or 5c ,ask him. smn PS I don't play acol so I may be missing something about your system .smn

[Douglas Newlands]

Post by Adam Lea
Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln.
AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963
N E S W
P P P
1C P 1H P
2S P 3NT AP
I'm possibly a bit light with the diamond stop for leaping to 3NT, but I
wanted to tell partner I had a better than a dirt minimum for my
response, to avoid any possibility she will pass a 2NT rebid by me (she
may have a thin reverse). As soon as dummy comes down, I see we are in
the wrong game. One heart stop, a heart lead and two aces missing it the
two suits where tricks are available, means one down, when 5C is cold.
Another 12 imps out. Would it have been better for me to rebid 2NT or 3C
instead of leaping to 3NT?

I would see this starting 1C-1H-1S-2C.
For me balanced hands open NT or rebid NT so opener is 5-4 when
he rebids 1S. I don't see that S has any more than a 2C bid now.
It should show 4 else there is likely to be a 1N rebid.
I think north might push on with 2D and south will bid 2N, maybe 3N,
and North might now bid 5C with the diamond emptiness being less
worrying now.
OTOH, I know people who would overcall 1H with the east hand and
things might be a bit more difficult.

doug

[Steve Willner]

Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln. [Dealer East]
AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963

I would see this starting [with North] 1C-1H-1S-2C.

I'd open the East hand 2H but realize that's not to everyone's taste.
As West, I'd raise to 3H but no higher.

If EW pass, I agree with Doug's first three bids, but I think South is
easily strong enough to raise to 3C. This is, of course, dependent on
how your partnership plays this sequence.

For me balanced hands open NT or rebid NT so opener is 5-4 when
he rebids 1S. I don't see that S has any more than a 2C bid now.
It should show 4 else there is likely to be a 1N rebid.

Again this is a matter of system. Some use 1NT as a very weak utility
bid, so 2C shows distinct values. If not playing that, I think 2C can
be bid on 3 cards if the overall hand is unbalanced.

I think north might push on with 2D

North is definitely worth a third bid, but what it should be depends on
system. I'd think 3C over 2C would be most descriptive for most, though.

and south will bid 2N, maybe 3N,

That seems premature. Why not 3H? If North can't bid NT, we probably
don't want to play there.

Specifying a complete sequence depends on exact agreements, but North is
worth a third bid opposite a minimum response, and South has an easy
acceptance if not an actual invite. The tricky part will be avoiding
3NT, which mostly is up to South to avoid showing great strength in
either red suit.

OTOH, I know people who would overcall 1H with the east hand and
things might be a bit more difficult.

I know some of those people too but try to avoid playing with them. If
you are going to bid with the East hand, make it at least 2H. I'd
rather open the hand, but a jump overcall is better than passing.
Bidding 1H would be my last choice.

[Player]

Post by Steve Willner

Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln. [Dealer East]
AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963

I would see this starting [with North] 1C-1H-1S-2C.

I'd open the East hand 2H but realize that's not to everyone's taste.
As West, I'd raise to 3H but no higher.
If EW pass, I agree with Doug's first three bids, but I think South is
easily strong enough to raise to 3C. This is, of course, dependent on
how your partnership plays this sequence.

For me balanced hands open NT or rebid NT so opener is 5-4 when
he rebids 1S. I don't see that S has any more than a 2C bid now.
It should show 4 else there is likely to be a 1N rebid.

Again this is a matter of system. Some use 1NT as a very weak utility
bid, so 2C shows distinct values. If not playing that, I think 2C can
be bid on 3 cards if the overall hand is unbalanced.

I think north might push on with 2D

North is definitely worth a third bid, but what it should be depends on
system. I'd think 3C over 2C would be most descriptive for most, though.

and south will bid 2N, maybe 3N,

That seems premature. Why not 3H? If North can't bid NT, we probably
don't want to play there.
Specifying a complete sequence depends on exact agreements, but North is
worth a third bid opposite a minimum response, and South has an easy
acceptance if not an actual invite. The tricky part will be avoiding
3NT, which mostly is up to South to avoid showing great strength in
either red suit.

OTOH, I know people who would overcall 1H with the east hand and
things might be a bit more difficult.

I know some of those people too but try to avoid playing with them. If
you are going to bid with the East hand, make it at least 2H. I'd
rather open the hand, but a jump overcall is better than passing.
Bidding 1H would be my last choice.

Hi Steve, so you would not play with either of Meckwell or Versace, Lauria, Duboin, Sementa Brink or Drijver. Wow!

[Player]

Weird bidding by all concerned. I would overcall 1h. As you are playing somnolent zombies, you auction should continue with 1s. 2s shows me someone who has no idea of hand evaluation. I don' blame you for bidding thrunt, but get yourself a new partner, Adam.

[Adam Lea]

Post by Player
Weird bidding by all concerned. I would overcall 1h. As you are playing somnolent zombies, you auction should continue with 1s. 2s shows me someone who has no idea of hand evaluation. I don' blame you for bidding thrunt, but get yourself a new partner, Adam.

I don't think I would have bid 1H as East. My overcalls tend to be
either a suit that I wouldn't be embarrassed to play in opposite a small
doubleton, or a weaker suit if it is better than minimum in HCP. Having
minimum HCP and a grotty suit doesn't do it for me, but maybe I am more
risk averse than most people.

[Lorne Anderson]

Post by Adam Lea
Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln.
AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963
N E S W
P P P
1C P 1H P
2S P 3NT AP
I'm possibly a bit light with the diamond stop for leaping to 3NT, but I
wanted to tell partner I had a better than a dirt minimum for my
response, to avoid any possibility she will pass a 2NT rebid by me (she
may have a thin reverse). As soon as dummy comes down, I see we are in
the wrong game. One heart stop, a heart lead and two aces missing it the
two suits where tricks are available, means one down, when 5C is cold.
Another 12 imps out. Would it have been better for me to rebid 2NT or 3C
instead of leaping to 3NT?

N is not close to what I expect for 2S.

1S should be nearly forcing as with a fit you want to bid 2S even with a
6 count or you make it too easy for the oppo to steal a part score from
you and without a fit you need to bid something else (in this case 1N).

If I rebid 2S in this auction I am telling partner I want to be in game
even if he was trying to improve the contract with some misfitting 4/5
count.

[jogs]

Post by Lorne Anderson
N is not close to what I expect for 2S.
1S should be nearly forcing as with a fit you want to bid 2S even with a
6 count or you make it too easy for the oppo to steal a part score from
you and without a fit you need to bid something else (in this case 1N).
If I rebid 2S in this auction I am telling partner I want to be in game
even if he was trying to improve the contract with some misfitting 4/5
count.

I'll go further than you. 2S is better reserved to show a stiff spade with 4-card heart support. Therefore one can only rebid 1S to show spades.
Stop worrying that responder may pass 1S. If responder passes there probably isn't any makeable game.

[Adam Lea]

Post by Lorne Anderson

Post by Adam Lea
Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln.
AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963
N E S W
P P P
1C P 1H P
2S P 3NT AP
I'm possibly a bit light with the diamond stop for leaping to 3NT, but I
wanted to tell partner I had a better than a dirt minimum for my
response, to avoid any possibility she will pass a 2NT rebid by me (she
may have a thin reverse). As soon as dummy comes down, I see we are in
the wrong game. One heart stop, a heart lead and two aces missing it the
two suits where tricks are available, means one down, when 5C is cold.
Another 12 imps out. Would it have been better for me to rebid 2NT or 3C
instead of leaping to 3NT?

N is not close to what I expect for 2S.
1S should be nearly forcing as with a fit you want to bid 2S even with a
6 count or you make it too easy for the oppo to steal a part score from
you and without a fit you need to bid something else (in this case 1N).
If I rebid 2S in this auction I am telling partner I want to be in game
even if he was trying to improve the contract with some misfitting 4/5
count.

I agree, as far as I am concerned bidding a second suit at the one level
could still show a strong hand, and responder will only pass if they
have, for whatever reason, made a light response in the first place and
it looks to be a misfit. I'll discuss this with my partner, as I think
she was concerned I may have passed 1S, so wanted to make a clear
forcing bid.

[Will in New Haven]

Post by Adam Lea

Post by Lorne Anderson

Post by Adam Lea
Teams, Benj acol, weak NT, NS vuln.
AKJ2
-
Q82
KQT752
T865 Q42
KQ96 JT753
J96 A754
A4 8
97
A842
KT3
J963
N E S W
P P P
1C P 1H P
2S P 3NT AP
I'm possibly a bit light with the diamond stop for leaping to 3NT, but I
wanted to tell partner I had a better than a dirt minimum for my
response, to avoid any possibility she will pass a 2NT rebid by me (she
may have a thin reverse). As soon as dummy comes down, I see we are in
the wrong game. One heart stop, a heart lead and two aces missing it the
two suits where tricks are available, means one down, when 5C is cold.
Another 12 imps out. Would it have been better for me to rebid 2NT or 3C
instead of leaping to 3NT?

N is not close to what I expect for 2S.
1S should be nearly forcing as with a fit you want to bid 2S even with a
6 count or you make it too easy for the oppo to steal a part score from
you and without a fit you need to bid something else (in this case 1N).
If I rebid 2S in this auction I am telling partner I want to be in game
even if he was trying to improve the contract with some misfitting 4/5
count.

I agree, as far as I am concerned bidding a second suit at the one level
could still show a strong hand, and responder will only pass if they
have, for whatever reason, made a light response in the first place and
it looks to be a misfit. I'll discuss this with my partner, as I think
she was concerned I may have passed 1S, so wanted to make a clear
forcing bid.

But she shouldn't be worried that you will pass 1S and game will make. If you pass 1S, there won't be a game. She doesn't have a good enough hand to be worried that you might pass. And you don't need to worry that she will pass your 2NT or 3C bid after 2S as she is supposed to honor her own game-force. I would bid 3C because I would be thinking about slam.