bad luck or bad bidding?

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

Mathcpoints, green against red, playing with a novice on a strong (by the club's standards) evening, so simple system consisting of weak NT, 3 weak twos, Transfers and Blackwood. The opponents are EBU grand masters and the strongest pair in the room:

A6
KQ9842
AQJ8
6

N E S W
P 2S 4H
X AP

The double was made after considerable thought.

The full deal:

KJ52
AJ653
743
K
A6 7
KQ9842 -
AQJ8 T8652
6 A987532
QT9843
T7
K
QJT4

Two off for -300 and a joint bottom. 6D is on. No-one bid the slam but one found 5D. The traveller was a mess, the other scores were 3NT(W)=, 5C(E)X-1, 5D(W)=, 4H(W)-1, and 5H(W)X-2. Was I taking too much of a plunge bidding 4H, or should I put this one down to bad luck?

[t***@att.net]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
A6
KQ9842
AQJ8
6
N E S W
P 2S 4H
X AP
The double was made after considerable thought.
KJ52
AJ653
743
K
A6 7
KQ9842 -
AQJ8 T8652
6 A987532
QT9843
T7
K
QJT4
Two off for -300 and a joint bottom. 6D is on. No-one bid the slam but one found 5D. The traveller was a mess, the other scores were 3NT(W)=, 5C(E)X-1, 5D(W)=, 4H(W)-1, and 5H(W)X-2. Was I taking too much of a plunge bidding 4H, or should I put this one down to bad luck?

Seems like the West had has good play in two suits so some type of double of two-suited bid would be more appropriate.

[ais523]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Mathcpoints, green against red, playing with a novice on a strong (by
the club's standards) evening, so simple system consisting of weak NT,
3 weak twos, Transfers and Blackwood. The opponents are EBU grand
A6
KQ9842
AQJ8
6
N E S W
P 2S 4H
X AP
The double was made after considerable thought.

[snip]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Was I taking too much of a plunge bidding 4H, or should I put this one
down to bad luck?

The jump says that you know what suit trumps are. With that hand, you
don't.

A two-suited overcall would be nice if one were available, but with
those methods it clearly isn't. With the methods given, I think I'd
double (which almost everyone plays as takeout nowadays), then bid
hearts unless partner bid diamonds. Second choice is a non-jump 3H,
but it's understating the hand slightly (this hand is pretty much at
or above the top of the usual range for 3H; most 3H bids would have
either fewer poinits, or more spades).

On the actual hand, though, actually doing this would likely have been
a mess, because without agreements, the bidding would probably have gone
something like (2S), X, (4S), 5C. (Based on the traveller results you
gave, I guess that actually happened at one table!) There are definitely
bidding systems in which 5D at this point asks your partner to choose
between the two remaining suits, but if you try that without agreements
it'll probably just be passed out of confusion. Likewise, there are
systems where XX after an opponent doubles asks partner to pick a
different suit, but that /definitely/ shouldn't be tried at the 5
level without agreements! So I think that with the methods you were
playing, you're stuck no matter what you do.

I think after (2S), X, (4S), 5C, it's probably best to bid 5D even
without agreements. At this point you're just trying to salvage a
playable contract, and partner probably doesn't have spades or hearts
(your X implied likely hearts and yet partner picked a different suit),
but might have diamonds, so 5D may either a) actually make, or b) manage
to go undoubled, or c) scare the opponents into running. 5DX would have
been a top on the night, and 5D a joint top, so it would have worked
out here. I'm not sure if I'd have found it at the table, though.

I'm not surprised nobody found the slam. Slams on 20 HCP are hard enough
to find even when the opponents don't pre-empt.

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
A6
KQ9842
AQJ8
6
N E S W
P 2S 4H
X AP
The double was made after considerable thought.
KJ52
AJ653
743
K
A6 7
KQ9842 -
AQJ8 T8652
6 A987532
QT9843
T7
K
QJT4
Two off for -300 and a joint bottom. 6D is on. No-one bid the slam but one found 5D. The traveller was a mess, the other scores were 3NT(W)=, 5C(E)X-1, 5D(W)=, 4H(W)-1, and 5H(W)X-2. Was I taking too much of a plunge bidding 4H, or should I put this one down to bad luck?

4H is poor. The suit is nowhere near good enough.

[Co Wiersma]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
A6
KQ9842
AQJ8
6
N E S W
P 2S 4H
X AP
The double was made after considerable thought.
KJ52
AJ653
743
K
A6 7
KQ9842 -
AQJ8 T8652
6 A987532
QT9843
T7
K
QJT4
Two off for -300 and a joint bottom. 6D is on. No-one bid the slam but one found 5D. The traveller was a mess, the other scores were 3NT(W)=, 5C(E)X-1, 5D(W)=, 4H(W)-1, and 5H(W)X-2. Was I taking too much of a plunge bidding 4H, or should I put this one down to bad luck?

I have no problem with the 4H bid
Even if you would have a bid to show a two suiter, I think the
difference in length is to big AND also
even with a diamond fit often hearts is better

Double would have been an alternative

Co Wiersma

[KWSchneider]

This is a 3H overcall, not good enough suit for 4H. Alternatively, you could predict that N would likely raise. So X intending to convert a 4C did to 4H showing longer hearts and two places to play (else direct 4H overcall). Auction would likely go: 2S-X; 3S-4C; P-4H; X-5D...
Getting to 6D would be a challenge.

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by KWSchneider
This is a 3H overcall, not good enough suit for 4H. Alternatively, you could predict that N would likely raise. So X intending to convert a 4C did to 4H showing longer hearts and two places to play (else direct 4H overcall). Auction would likely go: 2S-X; 3S-4C; P-4H; X-5D...
Getting to 6D would be a challenge.

I agree with Kurt here. The 4H bid is something you often see on BBO sometimes playing with a self styled expert. The suit is not good enough for 4H, plain and simple.

[Charles Brenner]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
A6
KQ9842
AQJ8
6
N E S W
P 2S 4H
X AP
The double was made after considerable thought.
KJ52
AJ653
743
K
A6 7
KQ9842 -
AQJ8 T8652
6 A987532
QT9843
T7
K
QJT4
Two off for -300 and a joint bottom. 6D is on. No-one bid the slam but one found 5D. The traveller was a mess, the other scores were 3NT(W)=, 5C(E)X-1, 5D(W)=, 4H(W)-1, and 5H(W)X-2. Was I taking too much of a plunge bidding 4H, or should I put this one down to bad luck?

Some of each.

4H is understandable. Trumps of Jx with partner would justify the losing trick count evaluation of this as a 4-loser hand and a working king as well makes 4H good. But that is a gamble. Perhaps hindsight but from here double followed by 3H seems a more accurate description.

Bad luck is North's double which is by no means obvious. I saw Paul Soloway in a similar position. The opponents bid up in hearts, I'd (can't play with Paul and then not let folks know can I?) bid spades, and visibly went into a study, brushed his cards with the fingers of his other hand for inspiration, and I was aghast. From my hand and the table action I was sure he had a heart stack and obvious double - coffeehousing? Soloway? I'd have doubled without theatrics. He came up with 4S. Of course he was right.

[Fred.]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
A6
KQ9842
AQJ8
6
N E S W
P 2S 4H
X AP
The double was made after considerable thought.
KJ52
AJ653
743
K
A6 7
KQ9842 -
AQJ8 T8652
6 A987532
QT9843
T7
K
QJT4
Two off for -300 and a joint bottom. 6D is on. No-one bid the slam but one found 5D. The traveller was a mess, the other scores were 3NT(W)=, 5C(E)X-1, 5D(W)=, 4H(W)-1, and 5H(W)X-2. Was I taking too much of a plunge bidding 4H, or should I put this one down to bad luck?

I don't think 4H was unreasonable, but I think I would have doubled:

N E S W
- (2S) X (3S)
4C (P) 4H (P|X)
5D all pass

or, playing 4NT as always takeout in competitive auctions

N E S W
- (2S) X (4S)
4NT (P) 5D all pass

But, note that over 4S N could have a problem with
a 3-card heart fit and good minor suit cards.

Playing the rule that 4NT in competitive auctions
is always takeout, then

N E S W
- (2S) 4H (P,X,4S)
4NT (any) 5D

might also get you there, though an advancer holding
a small doubleton heart might pass.

I don't worry about missing 6D when it's not clear that
others are going to find 5D. In competition the focus should
be finding the right strain. Note that if the opponents let
you play 4D, that also would have been a decent score on this
occasion despite 2 overtricks.

Fred.