That will teach me ...

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

to pre-empt with stiff ace:

East
A9876532
A
3
T95

5 card majors, strong NT, Bergen raises, Jacoby 2NT.

Non-vuln against vuln, first seat opening. It was a choice between 1S or 4S. I chose wrong.

N E S W
4S 5C 5S
6C P P P
AP

6C went one down for a bottom, as we have 6S on. No-one bid it, but most were allowed to play in 4S or 5S, doubled in a couple of cases.

Maybe opening 1S is better, as holding the spade suit I can keep bidding over the opponents, and if partner does have a good hand she will be more likely to look for slam if it is there. What put me off is the issue of what I do when partner ends up doubling the opponents expecting to get a good penalty, expecting me to have a near normal opening hand.

The full deal:

4
KJT654
A6
8742
KQJ A9876532
872 A
KQJT872 3
- T95
T
Q93
954
AKQJ63

[Co Wiersma]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
East
A9876532
A
3
T95
5 card majors, strong NT, Bergen raises, Jacoby 2NT.
Non-vuln against vuln, first seat opening. It was a choice between 1S or 4S. I chose wrong.
N E S W
4S 5C 5S
6C P P P
AP
6C went one down for a bottom, as we have 6S on. No-one bid it, but most were allowed to play in 4S or 5S, doubled in a couple of cases.
Maybe opening 1S is better, as holding the spade suit I can keep bidding over the opponents, and if partner does have a good hand she will be more likely to look for slam if it is there. What put me off is the issue of what I do when partner ends up doubling the opponents expecting to get a good penalty, expecting me to have a near normal opening hand.
4
KJT654
A6
8742
KQJ A9876532
872 A
KQJT872 3
- T95
T
Q93
954
AKQJ63

I think you were just unlucky

And yes the hand is strong enough for a 1-opening
But bidding 4S with hands like this may well give better results on the
long run.

Co Wiersma

[Douglas Newlands]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
East
A9876532
A
3
T95
5 card majors, strong NT, Bergen raises, Jacoby 2NT.
Non-vuln against vuln, first seat opening. It was a choice between 1S or 4S. I chose wrong.
N E S W
4S 5C 5S
6C P P P
AP
6C went one down for a bottom, as we have 6S on. No-one bid it, but most were allowed to play in 4S or 5S, doubled in a couple of cases.
Maybe opening 1S is better, as holding the spade suit I can keep bidding over the opponents, and if partner does have a good hand she will be more likely to look for slam if it is there. What put me off is the issue of what I do when partner ends up doubling the opponents expecting to get a good penalty, expecting me to have a near normal opening hand.
4
KJT654
A6
8742
KQJ A9876532
872 A
KQJT872 3
- T95
T
Q93
954
AKQJ63

Don't get hung up on a single hand.
There are two other hands here, how happy would you be
if partner had them? Would you have missed slam?
The simplistic view from the three possible hands here is that slam is 2
to 1 against.
Note that it _is_ simplistic but you are overly concerned with that one
(of three) hands.

doug

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
East
A9876532
A
3
T95
5 card majors, strong NT, Bergen raises, Jacoby 2NT.
Non-vuln against vuln, first seat opening. It was a choice between 1S or 4S. I chose wrong.
N E S W
4S 5C 5S
6C P P P
AP
6C went one down for a bottom, as we have 6S on. No-one bid it, but most were allowed to play in 4S or 5S, doubled in a couple of cases.
Maybe opening 1S is better, as holding the spade suit I can keep bidding over the opponents, and if partner does have a good hand she will be more likely to look for slam if it is there. What put me off is the issue of what I do when partner ends up doubling the opponents expecting to get a good penalty, expecting me to have a near normal opening hand.
4
KJT654
A6
8742
KQJ A9876532
872 A
KQJT872 3
- T95
T
Q93
954
AKQJ63

I think I had the auction slightly wrong. Thinking about it partner doubled 6C and it went one off, same MP result.

I was expecting heavy criticism for my opening as I have seen it mentioned on here before that opening a pre-empt with an outside ace increases the defensive potential, can result in a missed game and is generally not advised. Another decent player also opened 4S with my hand but were allowed to play in spades (either four or five).

It is not so much getting hung up on a single hjand, it is getting hung up on the seemingly unanswerable question on why my bridge results have significantly deteriorated over the last year. A year or more is too long to put down to random variance, which means I am looking at my own judgement and play, yet on the handful of occasions I have played with one of the stronger players, there hasn't been anything they can put their finger on. It gets to the point where if a lower standard is the new normal, can I enjoy the game, and if not, perhaps I should stop playing.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I was expecting heavy criticism for my opening as I have seen
it mentioned on here before that opening a pre-empt with an
outside ace increases the defensive potential, can result in a
missed game and is generally not advised.

The argument I have seen, is that a side ace is an entrance to
your long suit in a NT contract.

[Barry Margolin]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I was expecting heavy criticism for my opening as I have seen
it mentioned on here before that opening a pre-empt with an
outside ace increases the defensive potential, can result in a
missed game and is generally not advised.

The argument I have seen, is that a side ace is an entrance to
your long suit in a NT contract.

But a singleton ace can easily be knocked out before you've set up your
suit, which is why the hand in the OP is probably an exception.

[Jean Pierre Fontenille]

Maybe 5c. S fit and c control

[Steve Willner]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
A9876532
A
3
T95
Non-vuln against vuln, first seat opening.

As others have written, one deal proves nothing. Still, I think 1S
would have been better than 4S at this vulnerability.

One exercise I find helpful is to decide how high I would preempt if I
decided to preempt. The hand above is worth 7-8 tricks in spades, so if
I preempted at these colors, it would be 5S or 6S. Even 5S seems too
much, so 1S it is. (There are people who would pass and see what
happens, but I'm not one of them.)

The actual deal illustrates why 4S was poor. Responder, holding
KQJ 872 KQJT872 -- , added his expected 3 tricks to the 6 your 4S bid
had shown, and didn't bid enough. I wouldn't even have competed to 5S
over opponents' 5C with his hand -- I'd have hoped opponents were
missing slam. As a side note, if I did compete on the 5-level, I'd have
bid 5D, not 5S. As another side note, you should have doubled 6C. That
doesn't show a trump stack, just an unusually good preempt with some
defense. That just might get responder to bid 6S.

If the colors were reversed, opener's hand would be in range for a 4S
preempt. You might decide to open it 1S anyway, either because of the
defense or for tactical reasons, but 4S would at least let responder
compete to the proper level.

[rhm]

Post by Steve Willner

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
A9876532
A
3
T95
Non-vuln against vuln, first seat opening.

As others have written, one deal proves nothing. Still, I think 1S
would have been better than 4S at this vulnerability.
One exercise I find helpful is to decide how high I would preempt if I
decided to preempt. The hand above is worth 7-8 tricks in spades, so if
I preempted at these colors, it would be 5S or 6S. Even 5S seems too
much, so 1S it is. (There are people who would pass and see what
happens, but I'm not one of them.)
If the colors were reversed, opener's hand would be in range for a 4S
preempt. You might decide to open it 1S anyway, either because of the
defense or for tactical reasons, but 4S would at least let responder
compete to the proper level.

I do not understand why your exercise is helpful.
The main idea behind preempting is to stop opponents finding a good contract higher than your preempt while your risk going for a number should be limited.

Of course sometimes you will preempt your partner.
But the problem was not that you did not reach slam. The slam is not easy to reach and it seems few were in slam after opening 1S.
Opening 1S will usually make it much more likely that opponents find their best contract.
So it is rather unlucky that North South found their club fit at the 5 level and sacrificed red versus white at the 6 level, while most North South reasonably did not compete at this level.
Just look with what South bid 5C, vulnerable to boot.
I doubt this would happen at a high level game.

[Bruce Evans]

Post by rhm

Post by Steve Willner

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
A9876532
A
3
T95
Non-vuln against vuln, first seat opening.

As others have written, one deal proves nothing. Still, I think 1S
would have been better than 4S at this vulnerability.
One exercise I find helpful is to decide how high I would preempt if I
decided to preempt. The hand above is worth 7-8 tricks in spades, so if
I preempted at these colors, it would be 5S or 6S. Even 5S seems too
much, so 1S it is. (There are people who would pass and see what
happens, but I'm not one of them.)
If the colors were reversed, opener's hand would be in range for a 4S
preempt. You might decide to open it 1S anyway, either because of the
defense or for tactical reasons, but 4S would at least let responder
compete to the proper level.

I do not understand why your exercise is helpful.
The main idea behind preempting is to stop opponents finding a good
contract higher than your preempt while your risk going for a number
should be limited.
Of course sometimes you will preempt your partner.
But the problem was not that you did not reach slam. The slam is not
easy to reach and it seems few were in slam after opening 1S.
Opening 1S will usually make it much more likely that opponents find their best contract.
So it is rather unlucky that North South found their club fit at the 5
level and sacrificed red versus white at the 6 level, while most North
South reasonably did not compete at this level.
Just look with what South bid 5C, vulnerable to boot.
I doubt this would happen at a high level game.

If it did, then partner would bid the obvious 6S over 6C and consider
bidding 7S over 7C, and consider how to get the opponents to play 7H
wrongsided instead of 7C and making a Lightner double of 7H.

Partner has KQJ xxx KQJxxxx void. This needs opener to have only
xxxxxxxx xxx x x for 7SX to be a good sacrifice against 6C (especially
at matchpoints) (it is down only 5) or Axxxxxx xx xx xx for 7SX to be
a good sacrifice against 5C (especially at matchpoints) (it is down
only 3 unless the opponents have a diamond ruff and find it).

At matchpoints, the weakness of the field must be considered. Even the
likely down 1 or 2 in 6SX is bad if a not very large fraction of the field
play in 4SX or 5SX making or down 1 less than 6SX. But if the the opponents
bid 6C or 7C at this vulnerability, then I would believe them with partner's
hand. This hand has half of a defensive trick and the bidding indicates
that partner is on the light side of having 0 defensive tricks and the
opponents have their bids, so 6C will make easily and the problem is what
to do over 7C. I would believe that 7C shows that they have first round
spade control but that 7C is down on a due to having a diamond or heart
loser or just be psyching 7C with a spade loser.

Partner's 5S bid must show something. It should't be bid to transfer the
opponents to 6C when that is a good spot or to go down many in 5S. Partner
might know what to do over 6C or want cooperation from opener. It is very
easy to cooperate with 2 aces. Doubling seems obvious. The 2 aces give
defense to 7C, so opener knows that the choice is between 6CX and 6S, with
6S very unlikely to make. Hopefully responder will rememeber that he knew
what to do over 6C -- it is to bid 6S -- and not pass 6CX. The double also
solves responder's problem of what to do over 7C -- just double it and
hope to beat it 2 to protect the cold 5S.

Bruce

[Will in New Haven]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
East
A9876532
A
3
T95
5 card majors, strong NT, Bergen raises, Jacoby 2NT.
Non-vuln against vuln, first seat opening. It was a choice between 1S or 4S. I chose wrong.
N E S W
4S 5C 5S
6C P P P
AP
6C went one down for a bottom, as we have 6S on. No-one bid it, but most were allowed to play in 4S or 5S, doubled in a couple of cases.
Maybe opening 1S is better, as holding the spade suit I can keep bidding over the opponents, and if partner does have a good hand she will be more likely to look for slam if it is there. What put me off is the issue of what I do when partner ends up doubling the opponents expecting to get a good penalty, expecting me to have a near normal opening hand.
4
KJT654
A6
8742
KQJ A9876532
872 A
KQJT872 3
- T95
T
Q93
954
AKQJ63

I don't like an Ace-empty suit for a preempt but I don't think it's that important with an eight-card suit. The outside Ace would bother me more and I think I'd choose a one-bid.

With your partner's hand, I would not let them play 6C. I might pass 5C, so as not to encourage them to get there but I would certainly bid 6S if they got to six.

Will in New Haven