Used the two-suited overcall this time

[Adam Lea]

Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
although it didn't work out as I went a bit too far:

NS vuln:

AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3

N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP

I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.

Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Adam Lea
Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3
N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP
I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.
Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

I don't know how many times I hear partner say, "I had no defense..." Those partners sadly are only bidding their thirteen cards without thinking about whether their CHO might have the goods for setting the contract. Here, North's motive to bid 4D was likely to push them into 4S a contract that might well not make given North's trumps sitting over the long trumps of West. You might have passed, letting partner have a chance to decide whether to bid on or not. You might have asked yourself if you had anything beyond what your first bid had shown. Here, North could have elected to double. How would that have scored?

[Robert Chance]

Post by b***@gmail.com
I don't know how many times I hear partner say, "I had no defense..." Those partners sadly are only bidding their thirteen cards without thinking about whether their CHO might have the goods for setting the contract. Here, North's motive to bid 4D was likely to push them into 4S a contract that might well not make given North's trumps sitting over the long trumps of West.

3S is surely forcing, so there is no point in partner bidding 4D just to push them a level higher.

Personally, I would have passed with the North hand over 3S. Given the actual auction, I would have pressed on to 5D with the South hand. 6-6 come alix, as they say.

[Adam Lea]

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Adam Lea
Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3
N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP
I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.
Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

I don't know how many times I hear partner say, "I had no defense..." Those partners sadly are only bidding their thirteen cards without thinking about whether their CHO might have the goods for setting the contract. Here, North's motive to bid 4D was likely to push them into 4S a contract that might well not make given North's trumps sitting over the long trumps of West. You might have passed, letting partner have a chance to decide whether to bid on or not. You might have asked yourself if you had anything beyond what your first bid had shown. Here, North could have elected to double. How would that have scored?

If partner has the goods to take 4S off then why not stay silent until
they get to 4S then whack them with the red card? 3S is never getting
passed out. The reason I bid 5D is that I was more distributional and
HCP weaker than partner would normally expect.

[Lorne Anderson]

Post by Adam Lea
If partner has the goods to take 4S off then why not stay silent until
they get to 4S then whack them with the red card? 3S is never getting
passed out. The reason I bid 5D is that I was more distributional and
HCP weaker than partner would normally expect.

4S is not the only possible contract - what about 3N ? (I know it does
not make here but it would if E had AQ of D instead of KQ). If N passes
and they bid 3N you have to defend as both oppo now know dble is
penalties and are in a position to dble or bid 4N if you bid again. An
immediate 4D takes NT at any level out of the picture and puts them
under pressure so in my book is a good tactic. Just imagine the problem
if the next hnd had a decent doubleton spade and a good hand - what
should he do over 4D?

[Lorne Anderson]

Post by Adam Lea
Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3
N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP
I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.
Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

I can offer you an agreement to avoid this:

If you pre-empt (single suited or 2-suited) and partner voluntarily
raises (which is what he did here) and the oppo then bid game the
preemptor can never double for penalties. Instead dble says you have an
unusually good hand for a sacrifice and demands that partner sacrifices
unless he is fairly sure he can beat the game.

This means that when you double you are usually 6-6, sometimes 6520 if
you showed a 2-suiter or 6430 if you showed a single suiter and you are
certain a sacrifice is good if they are making. It also allows partner
to tempt the oppo into an indescression without fear that you may
sacrifice in front of his penalty double.

It does mean that you can't preempt with a defensive hand that may want
to make a penalty double later but I consider that an advatage.

[jogs]

Post by Adam Lea
Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3
N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP
I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.
Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

There was no choice of actions. This is an easy pass.

[Player]

Post by jogs

Post by Adam Lea
Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3
N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP
I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.
Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

There was no choice of actions. This is an easy pass.

I agree with partner's raise. I also play what Lorne has suggested to you. Adam, basically you bid your partner's hand for him. You should pass 4S.

[p***@infi.net]

Post by Adam Lea
Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3
N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP
I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.
Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

You need to decide what the purpose of 4D is. After a simple, one-suited preempt, the usual assumption is that partner is in charge, and knows what he plans to do after they bid 4S. The raise may be intended to remove some bidding room for slam purposes, prevent their playing 3NT as Lorne suggests, or guard against an unexpected pass of 3S. This style assumes that preemptor has described his hand well enough for partner to make an informed decision.

The situation is less clear playing wide-ranging preempts, which effectively include most two-suited hands. Now 4D may be reasonably viewed as offering preemptor information on which to act again. That's basically what you assumed, but as you found out that was a poor assumption without prior discussion.

On a Law of Total Tricks basis, your bid of 5D assumes 20 or more total tricks at this vulnerability: a ten card fit each way, or the equivalent. And, you must assume a minimum of ten tricks your way, as down 2 doubled will be too expensive. Combine the odds that your estimate is wrong with the possibility that partner was not on the same wavelength, I would suggest pass and talk about it later.

[KWSchneider]

Post by Adam Lea
Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3
N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP
I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.
Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

My key concern with your 5D bid is not your shape, which supports your decision, but the void in their trump suit and and an Ace. The void suggests length with your partner and a bad trump split - and the Ace 'should' be a defensive trick. I would pass, giving partner the final decision.

[Player]

Post by KWSchneider

Post by Adam Lea
Last time I posted a hand on here with a 6-5 shape some posters
suggested I should have made a two-suited overcall, even though I only
held a 3 count. I had the opportunity to do such an overcall again,
AJ74
J6
J75
A752
KQT95 8632
AK92 Q
2 KQ6
T96 KQJ84
-
T87543
AT9843
3
N E S W
P 1C 2NT 3S
4D 4S 5D AP
I bid 5D thinking that we had no defense to 4S (given North had bid 4D,
I thought he was likely to have four of them so EW were likely void),
and hoping we gan get out for one off doubled. The actual situation is
that North has a trump stack and an outside ace which equates to three
defensive tricks. My diamond ace is the fourth trick to take 4S off if
we let them play in it. 5D is two off for another two matchpoints out of
14, as four pairs are going off in 4S, one West was allowed to play in
2H, and one North was allowed to play in 3D.
Again, very frustrating. It seemed that evening every time I had a
choice of actions, I picked the wrong one and got the hand of God down
on me.

My key concern with your 5D bid is not your shape, which supports your decision, but the void in their trump suit and and an Ace. The void suggests length with your partner and a bad trump split - and the Ace 'should' be a defensive trick. I would pass, giving partner the final decision.
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Kurt makes a strong argument.