A couple of hands I disagreed with partner

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

Hand 1:
I held

3
AJ9762
653
QJ5

Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?


Hand 2:

1H 1S
3D

Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

[nrford100]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

1. Doesn't a 2-level overcall require something close to opening strength, or am I showing my age?

2. Standard American (excuse me if this doesn't apply in the UK) says that a jump-shift response by opener shows 19+ points. I would also expect 5-5 reds.

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Hand 1 pass of course.
Hand 2 5H, 4+ D GF unless you have agreed beforehand that 3D is a splimit bid.

[ais523]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge
session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?

My initial instincts were to pass, but after thinking about the scoring
somewhat, 2H seems like it may be a better bid. The main potential risk
is a penalty double on your left (which might not even exist in the
opponents' system); as you're non-vulnerable, 2H is safe undoubled even
though this is probably the opponents' hand; and it interferes slightly
with the opposing bidding and makes it easier for your partner to judge
a sacrifice (it doesn't distort the shape or strength of the hand at
all).

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades, in which case it shows both majors, and makes some
specific statement about diamonds (probably shortness). When not playing
it as a support bid, it shows a game-forcing hand with hearts and
diamonds (likely 5-5, but 5-4 is possible).

It is generally very worthwhile to have an agreement about whether this
sort of bid is natural or artificial!

[Pubkeybreaker]

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge
session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?

My initial instincts were to pass, but after thinking about the scoring
somewhat, 2H seems like it may be a better bid.

Cretinous. An 8 loser hand with 1QT opposite a passed partner?
With the opening bid on your right, you are more likely to be on lead,
so it is not lead directing.

If you *must* overcall, try 3H.

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

Post by ais523
It is generally very worthwhile to have an agreement about whether this
sort of bid is natural or artificial!

This statement is vacuous. It is *always* helpful to have an agreement.
The issue *here* is "what is the standard meaning".

[Pubkeybreaker]

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge
session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?

My initial instincts were to pass, but after thinking about the scoring
somewhat, 2H seems like it may be a better bid.

Cretinous. An 8 loser hand with 1QT opposite a passed partner?
With the opening bid on your right, you are more likely to be on lead,
so it is not lead directing.
If you *must* overcall, try 3H.

Note that 3H might work here; LHO may not have enough to bid 3S over
3H, and partner will surely bid 4H, putting a LOT of pressure on opener.

[Jonathan Ferguson]

I would bid 3H on the first hand. What kind of Christmas party is it if nobody offers any gifts? You're not vulnerable and partner is a passed hand. If the opponents were vulnerable, 3H would be auto. Live a little.

I would not tank and then bid 2H as that basically reveals your problem.

Partner does not have a 3D bid, but she has a very nice hand and if you do chronically underbid I understand her dilemma. Did you give your hand on that one? Just because your partner misbid doesn't necessarily mean you didn't make a worse misbid.

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by Jonathan Ferguson
I would bid 3H on the first hand. What kind of Christmas party is it if nobody offers any gifts? You're not vulnerable and partner is a passed hand. If the opponents were vulnerable, 3H would be auto. Live a little.
I would not tank and then bid 2H as that basically reveals your problem.
Partner does not have a 3D bid, but she has a very nice hand and if you do chronically underbid I understand her dilemma. Did you give your hand on that one? Just because your partner misbid doesn't necessarily mean you didn't make a worse misbid.

No thanks, Christmas party or not, I'd rather play solid bridge than reckless bridge, I'm not that desperate to play the hand. Bidding 3H on that deserves to go for at least 800, the only reason it doesn't is partner has KQxx in support. How often is that going to happen? I'll save the ultra aggresive pre-empts for the I-will-not-defend-club who play tops and bottoms bridge.

I have a tendency to be conservative, but don't chronically underbid. I have become more aggressive in the last couple of years when I discovered that I had defended two thirds of the hands over the course of a year, but there is being aggressive, and there is going OTT. The ones in the club that do go OTT have notoriety, and it is not good notoriety.

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by Jonathan Ferguson
I would bid 3H on the first hand. What kind of Christmas party is it if nobody offers any gifts? You're not vulnerable and partner is a passed hand. If the opponents were vulnerable, 3H would be auto. Live a little.
I would not tank and then bid 2H as that basically reveals your problem.
Partner does not have a 3D bid, but she has a very nice hand and if you do chronically underbid I understand her dilemma. Did you give your hand on that one? Just because your partner misbid doesn't necessarily mean you didn't make a worse misbid.

No thanks, Christmas party or not, I'd rather play solid bridge than reckless bridge, I'm not that desperate to play the hand. Bidding 3H on that deserves to go for at least 800, the only reason it doesn't is partner has KQxx in support. How often is that going to happen? I'll save the ultra aggresive pre-empts for the I-will-not-defend-club who play tops and bottoms bridge.
I have a tendency to be conservative, but don't chronically underbid. I have become more aggressive in the last couple of years when I discovered that I had defended two thirds of the hands over the course of a year, but there is being aggressive, and there is going OTT. The ones in the club that do go OTT have notoriety, and it is not good notoriety.

It is also not good for your pocketbook.

[Douglas Newlands]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by Jonathan Ferguson
I would bid 3H on the first hand. What kind of Christmas party is it if nobody offers any gifts? You're not vulnerable and partner is a passed hand. If the opponents were vulnerable, 3H would be auto. Live a little.
I would not tank and then bid 2H as that basically reveals your problem.
Partner does not have a 3D bid, but she has a very nice hand and if you do chronically underbid I understand her dilemma. Did you give your hand on that one? Just because your partner misbid doesn't necessarily mean you didn't make a worse misbid.

No thanks, Christmas party or not, I'd rather play solid bridge than reckless bridge, I'm not that

It's the Christmas party, not a time for stolid bridge or even solid bridge.
Blame the egg nog if things go bad!
Isn't there a prize for the biggest penalty of the evening? Give the
oppo a chance for it!

doug

desperate to play the hand. Bidding 3H on that deserves to go for at
least 800, the only reason it doesn't is partner has KQxx in support.
How often is that going to happen? I'll save the ultra aggresive
pre-empts for the I-will-not-defend-club who play tops and bottoms bridge.

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I have a tendency to be conservative, but don't chronically underbid. I have become more aggressive in the last couple of years when I discovered that I had defended two thirds of the hands over the course of a year, but there is being aggressive, and there is going OTT. The ones in the club that do go OTT have notoriety, and it is not good notoriety.

[Hotzenplotz]

On Saturday, 22 December 2018 22:04:34 UTC+7, Pubkeybreaker wrote:

snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped

I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

[ais523]

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Right, the splimit meaning is common enough that if I had no information
at all to go on, I wouldn't know whether a partner meant the bid as
splimit or as a natural game force.

You can normally make a decent guess based on what other agreements the
partner asked for, though. If your partner bids most things as natural,
or appears to be old-fashioned, it probably isn't splimit.

[Pubkeybreaker]

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Anyway, I was replying to this idiotic comment:"Not in any standard bidding system."

[Co Wiersma]

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Every one that followed this thread can know there was no such agreement

More so as you need at least some way to bid forcing if you have a hand
not suited for splimmit
And no such agreement was mentioned

Co Wiersma

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Every one that followed this thread can know there was no such agreement
More so as you need at least some way to bid forcing if you have a hand
not suited for splimmit
And no such agreement was mentioned
Co Wiersma

Co, I am well aware that English is not your first language, so I take that into account in my reply. I KNOW that 3D was not a mini splinter, however my reply was to Pubkeybreaker who claimed that 3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system. Clearly this comment is incorrect. Ok? Please read carefully before commenting.

[Co Wiersma]

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Every one that followed this thread can know there was no such agreement
More so as you need at least some way to bid forcing if you have a hand
not suited for splimmit
And no such agreement was mentioned
Co Wiersma

Co, I am well aware that English is not your first language, so I take that into account in my reply. I KNOW that 3D was not a mini splinter, however my reply was to Pubkeybreaker who claimed that 3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system. Clearly this comment is incorrect. Ok? Please read carefully before commenting.

No reason to get snippy about it

First I know there is a difference between "Any system" and "any
standard system"
Second I did not respond to the start of your discussion with
Pubkeybreaker but I did respond at the point where the discusion was
about what actually was the case at the table

Co Wiersma

+

[Pubkeybreaker]

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Every one that followed this thread can know there was no such agreement
More so as you need at least some way to bid forcing if you have a hand
not suited for splimmit
And no such agreement was mentioned
Co Wiersma

Co, I am well aware that English is not your first language, so I take that into account in my reply. I KNOW that 3D was not a mini splinter, however my reply was to Pubkeybreaker who claimed that 3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system. Clearly this comment is incorrect. Ok? Please read carefully before commenting.

You are a blithering idiot and you are misquoting what I said.

I did *NOT* say "3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system".

I did say that it is not part of any *standard*.

It may indeed be played very frequently. But if you were to sit down with a
first time partner and had no discussion, the 3D bid here would assume
it *standard* meaning; a natural GF jump shift. No one sensible would
every assume that 3D was conventional *without discussion*.

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Every one that followed this thread can know there was no such agreement
More so as you need at least some way to bid forcing if you have a hand
not suited for splimmit
And no such agreement was mentioned
Co Wiersma

Co, I am well aware that English is not your first language, so I take that into account in my reply. I KNOW that 3D was not a mini splinter, however my reply was to Pubkeybreaker who claimed that 3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system. Clearly this comment is incorrect. Ok? Please read carefully before commenting.

You are a blithering idiot and you are misquoting what I said.
I did *NOT* say "3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system".
I did say that it is not part of any *standard*.
It may indeed be played very frequently. But if you were to sit down with a
first time partner and had no discussion, the 3D bid here would assume
it *standard* meaning; a natural GF jump shift. No one sensible would
every assume that 3D was conventional *without discussion*.

Good grief, you are so illiterate you do not even know what you wrote: "Not in any standard bidding system." This is clearly an idiotic comment. Quite a number of players play mini splinters. Fellow posters, I think we have a classic case of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome in our midst.

[Pubkeybreaker]

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Every one that followed this thread can know there was no such agreement
More so as you need at least some way to bid forcing if you have a hand
not suited for splimmit
And no such agreement was mentioned
Co Wiersma

Co, I am well aware that English is not your first language, so I take that into account in my reply. I KNOW that 3D was not a mini splinter, however my reply was to Pubkeybreaker who claimed that 3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system. Clearly this comment is incorrect. Ok? Please read carefully before commenting.

You are a blithering idiot and you are misquoting what I said.
I did *NOT* say "3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system".
I did say that it is not part of any *standard*.
It may indeed be played very frequently. But if you were to sit down with a
first time partner and had no discussion, the 3D bid here would assume
it *standard* meaning; a natural GF jump shift. No one sensible would
every assume that 3D was conventional *without discussion*.

Good grief, you are so illiterate you do not even know what you wrote: "Not in any standard bidding system." This is clearly an idiotic comment. Quite a number of players play mini splinters. Fellow posters, I think we have a classic case of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome in our midst.

I take it back. You are not a blithering idiot. Instead, your IQ would
have to increase by 50 points for you to become a blithering idiot.

You do not seem to understand the meaning of the word 'standard'.

Asshole.

<plonk>

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Every one that followed this thread can know there was no such agreement
More so as you need at least some way to bid forcing if you have a hand
not suited for splimmit
And no such agreement was mentioned
Co Wiersma

Co, I am well aware that English is not your first language, so I take that into account in my reply. I KNOW that 3D was not a mini splinter, however my reply was to Pubkeybreaker who claimed that 3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system. Clearly this comment is incorrect. Ok? Please read carefully before commenting.

You are a blithering idiot and you are misquoting what I said.
I did *NOT* say "3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system".
I did say that it is not part of any *standard*.
It may indeed be played very frequently. But if you were to sit down with a
first time partner and had no discussion, the 3D bid here would assume
it *standard* meaning; a natural GF jump shift. No one sensible would
every assume that 3D was conventional *without discussion*.

Good grief, you are so illiterate you do not even know what you wrote: "Not in any standard bidding system." This is clearly an idiotic comment. Quite a number of players play mini splinters. Fellow posters, I think we have a classic case of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome in our midst.

I take it back. You are not a blithering idiot. Instead, your IQ would
have to increase by 50 poi
You do not seem to understand the meaning of the word 'standard'.
Asshole.
<plonk>

Are you a complete idiot, or a work in progress? You are clearly so poor at this game that you do not even know that mini splinters are a convention and not a system. You should emigrate from the USA and I suspect the collective IQ would rise by 50 points. By the way, "asshole" is spelt "arsehole" as you should well know because you have obviously been one all your life. By a book on basic English comprehension.

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by Hotzenplotz

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by Hotzenplotz
snipped

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

This depends on agreements. Many pairs would play 3D as a support bid
agreeing spades,

Not in any standard bidding system.

snipped
I guess you don't get out much. Splimit bids are not uncommon.

Irrelevant. It is not a bid that is used *without discussion*. When there
is no discussion 3D is a GF natural jump shift. There was no discussion
here.

so you were at the table?

Every one that followed this thread can know there was no such agreement
More so as you need at least some way to bid forcing if you have a hand
not suited for splimmit
And no such agreement was mentioned
Co Wiersma

Co, I am well aware that English is not your first language, so I take that into account in my reply. I KNOW that 3D was not a mini splinter, however my reply was to Pubkeybreaker who claimed that 3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system. Clearly this comment is incorrect. Ok? Please read carefully before commenting.

You are a blithering idiot and you are misquoting what I said.
I did *NOT* say "3D as showing support for the the major was not played in any system".
I did say that it is not part of any *standard*.
It may indeed be played very frequently. But if you were to sit down with a
first time partner and had no discussion, the 3D bid here would assume
it *standard* meaning; a natural GF jump shift. No one sensible would
every assume that 3D was conventional *without discussion*.

"No one sensible would
every assume that 3D was conventional *without discussion*. "

Note what I posted on 22nd Dec
"Hand 2 5H, 4+ D GF UNLESS YOU HAVE AGREED BEFOREHAND that 3D is a splimit bid."
Capitals added.

[Co Wiersma]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

[Co Wiersma]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

1 : No doubt it be proper bridge to pass
But I would not blame anyone for some aggressive heart bid, specially
when say sorry after :P

2 : 18 points, 5 hearts and 4 diamonds

Co Wiersma

[Travis Crump]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?

If I bid, it would be 3H. I'd likely pass though.

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

A game force, 5+ hearts. They could have A AKJxx AQJxx xx, but they
could also have Ax AKJxxxx AQx x. Especially if opener's next bid is 4H,
I wouldn't assume they have real diamonds.

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Thanks for the responses so far.

My decision to pass with the first hand was reasonable it seems. I like to have somewhat sound overcalls at the two level, and I had got recently stung for making an aggressive 2C overcall a couple of weeks ago.

The opponents bid to 4S (after 1S - 2S - 4S). Partners hand was:

K72
QT43
K87
KT3

4S made comfortably, but if we can barrage to 4H and play there, it is a good sacrifice. Cue complaining from opposite that I am too conservative, and that I should have bid 2H because there were four hearts opposite.

The second hand I thought it should show around 18-19 HCP 5+/4+ shape, game forcing. Partner held:

-
AJT742
AQ72
AJ7

I didn't think this was good enough for a 3D rebid opposite what could be a minimal 5-6 HCP, and suggested she could have bid 2D with that hand which I would take as being up to 17 HCP, but she wouldn't have it*. She has got it in her head that I am overly conservative in the bidding (and is why we nearly always get poor scores, because we let the opponents get away with things too often) so feels obliged to compensate.

*She did accept it when an opponent suggested she should have downgraded the hand after I responded in her void suit.

[Dave Flower]

I'm in favour of bidding on the first hand - I didn't go t the Christmas party to pass!

David Flower

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Thanks for the responses so far.
My decision to pass with the first hand was reasonable it seems. I like to have somewhat sound overcalls at the two level, and I had got recently stung for making an aggressive 2C overcall a couple of weeks ago.
K72
QT43
K87
KT3
4S made comfortably, but if we can barrage to 4H and play there, it is a good sacrifice. Cue complaining from opposite that I am too conservative, and that I should have bid 2H because there were four hearts opposite.
-
AJT742
AQ72
AJ7
I didn't think this was good enough for a 3D rebid opposite what could be a minimal 5-6 HCP, and suggested she could have bid 2D with that hand which I would take as being up to 17 HCP, but she wouldn't have it*. She has got it in her head that I am overly conservative in the bidding (and is why we nearly always get poor scores, because we let the opponents get away with things too often) so feels obliged to compensate.
*She did accept it when an opponent suggested she should have downgraded the hand after I responded in her void suit.

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by Dave Flower
I'm in favour of bidding on the first hand - I didn't go t the Christmas party to pass!
David Flower

Ha ha, unfortunately you would have been doing a lot of that passing if you were sitting in my seat. The average HCP count in my seat was the worst of the four positions, again.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
She has got it in her head that I am overly conservative in the
bidding (and is why we nearly always get poor scores, because
we let the opponents get away with things too often) so feels
obliged to compensate.

The solution to that problem is to start bidding very
aggressively - more than you like yourself. That will make her
bid with more care, and in the end you may strike a fine balance.

Unless the double aggression proves to be a winning strategy. You
could live with that, I suppose.

[Co Wiersma]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Thanks for the responses so far.
My decision to pass with the first hand was reasonable it seems. I like to have somewhat sound overcalls at the two level, and I had got recently stung for making an aggressive 2C overcall a couple of weeks ago.
K72
QT43
K87
KT3
4S made comfortably, but if we can barrage to 4H and play there, it is a good sacrifice. Cue complaining from opposite that I am too conservative, and that I should have bid 2H because there were four hearts opposite.
-
AJT742
AQ72
AJ7
I didn't think this was good enough for a 3D rebid opposite what could be a minimal 5-6 HCP, and suggested she could have bid 2D with that hand which I would take as being up to 17 HCP, but she wouldn't have it*. She has got it in her head that I am overly conservative in the bidding (and is why we nearly always get poor scores, because we let the opponents get away with things too often) so feels obliged to compensate.
*She did accept it when an opponent suggested she should have downgraded the hand after I responded in her void suit.

Well the difference between that 2C bid and this 2H bid is not so much
the risk
the risk is big in both situations
but the possible gain

About the second problem
If the bidding had gone 1H-1NT-???
Then the hand is more then strong enough for 3D

Co Wiersma

[Pubkeybreaker]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Thanks for the responses so far.
My decision to pass with the first hand was reasonable it seems. I like to have somewhat sound overcalls at the two level, and I had got recently stung for making an aggressive 2C overcall a couple of weeks ago.
K72
QT43
K87
KT3
4S made comfortably, but if we can barrage to 4H and play there, it is a good sacrifice.

It is hard to sacrifice in 4H over a spade game.

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Cue complaining from opposite that I am too conservative, and that I should >have bid 2H because there were four hearts opposite.

A 2H overcall will not prevent them from bidding 4S if it is there. RHO
will raise spades over 2H with any kind of support. Given the actual
auction, if you did bid 2H it would probably go 1S-2H-2S-3H/4H-4S.

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
-
AJT742
AQ72
AJ7
I didn't think this was good enough for a 3D rebid opposite what could be a minimal 5-6 HCP,

It is not. Especially with a void in partner's suit. A case *might* be made for 3D if clubs and spades were switched.

Also, the suit quality in both red suits in a little lacking. A 2D
rebid is sufficient, and it is at least a 1-round force.

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
and suggested she could have bid 2D with that hand which I would take as >being up to 17 HCP, but she wouldn't have it*. She has got it in her head >that I am overly conservative in the bidding

Get a new partner. She is someone that I would not play with a second time.

[Will in New Haven]

Post by Pubkeybreaker

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Thanks for the responses so far.
My decision to pass with the first hand was reasonable it seems. I like to have somewhat sound overcalls at the two level, and I had got recently stung for making an aggressive 2C overcall a couple of weeks ago.
K72
QT43
K87
KT3
4S made comfortably, but if we can barrage to 4H and play there, it is a good sacrifice.

It is hard to sacrifice in 4H over a spade game.

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Cue complaining from opposite that I am too conservative, and that I should >have bid 2H because there were four hearts opposite.

A 2H overcall will not prevent them from bidding 4S if it is there. RHO
will raise spades over 2H with any kind of support. Given the actual
auction, if you did bid 2H it would probably go 1S-2H-2S-3H/4H-4S.

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
-
AJT742
AQ72
AJ7
I didn't think this was good enough for a 3D rebid opposite what could be a minimal 5-6 HCP,

It is not. Especially with a void in partner's suit. A case *might* be made for 3D if clubs and spades were switched.
Also, the suit quality in both red suits in a little lacking. A 2D
rebid is sufficient, and it is at least a 1-round force.

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
and suggested she could have bid 2D with that hand which I would take as >being up to 17 HCP, but she wouldn't have it*. She has got it in her head >that I am overly conservative in the bidding

Get a new partner. She is someone that I would not play with a second time.

1H - 1S - 2D is "at least a one-round force?" Since there has been ample discussion on this thread on what is standard, I think I can say "no, it isn't" without being arrogant about it. lt is certainly non-forcing in most of the systems I know. It is awfully wide-ranging and partner will often have a tough decision about whether to bid.

[Will in New Haven]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Thanks for the responses so far.
My decision to pass with the first hand was reasonable it seems. I like to have somewhat sound overcalls at the two level, and I had got recently stung for making an aggressive 2C overcall a couple of weeks ago.
K72
QT43
K87
KT3
4S made comfortably, but if we can barrage to 4H and play there, it is a good sacrifice. Cue complaining from opposite that I am too conservative, and that I should have bid 2H because there were four hearts opposite.

A possible solution to your failure to compete enough is to open that hand. Preferably to open it 1H or 1NT, unless you think it will give you scurvy. It is safer to open that hand 1C or 1H than to take a two-level overcall on the hand you had. And opening that hand 1NT non-vulnerable, while not safe, works awfully well a lot of the time..

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
-
AJT742
AQ72
AJ7
I didn't think this was good enough for a 3D rebid opposite what could be a minimal 5-6 HCP, and suggested she could have bid 2D with that hand which I would take as being up to 17 HCP, but she wouldn't have it*. She has got it in her head that I am overly conservative in the bidding (and is why we nearly always get poor scores, because we let the opponents get away with things too often) so feels obliged to compensate.
*She did accept it when an opponent suggested she should have downgraded the hand after I responded in her void suit.

Her hand isn't good enough for 3D but a 2D bid is so wide-ranging that I can understand the temptation. I am about through with downgrading my hand because of a void in the suit partner opened or responded but might effect my decision if I were tempted on that hand.

[Ars Ivci]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Hand 1: pass
Hand 2: jump-shift, GF. Diamonds can be a fragment.

[[e-mail]]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

For hand 2:

The question at issue is whether it says "if you have your bid, we probably have a game" or "even if you don't have your bid, we probably have a game." Your partner's theory is consistent with neither. Traditionally, the second meaning held, because the standard for a response was 6 pts including distribution.

Carl

[Lorne]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?

Pass (would bid 3H if favourable vul)

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Game force, usually 18+ pts, 5+ hearts, 4+ diamonds but somes times 3
diamonds if long hearts and not other suitable GF bid available.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Lorne

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?

Pass (would bid 3H if favourable vul)

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

Game force, usually 18+ pts, 5+ hearts, 4+ diamonds but somes times 3
diamonds if long hearts and not other suitable GF bid available.

so you vote for "if you have your bid"

[Will in New Haven]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

1: I pass.
2: Partner has at least five Hearts and at least four Diamonds, Hearts being longer or the suits equal. In partner's judgement, the hand is worth a game force. Partner _might_ have only a three-card Diamond fragment in a very strong hand with an extremely long Heart suit.

--
Will in Pompano Beach

[[e-mail]]

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

1: I pass.
2: Partner has at least five Hearts and at least four Diamonds, Hearts being longer or the suits equal. In partner's judgement, the hand is worth a game force. Partner _might_ have only a three-card Diamond fragment in a very strong hand with an extremely long Heart suit.
--
Will in Pompano Beach

"in partner's judgement ... worth a game force."

That is not the same as worth a 5-level slam try by responder when holding something like opening values.

And that is the big problem.

Carl

[Will in New Haven]

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

1: I pass.
2: Partner has at least five Hearts and at least four Diamonds, Hearts being longer or the suits equal. In partner's judgement, the hand is worth a game force. Partner _might_ have only a three-card Diamond fragment in a very strong hand with an extremely long Heart suit.
--
Will in Pompano Beach

"in partner's judgement ... worth a game force."
That is not the same as worth a 5-level slam try by responder when holding something like opening values.
And that is the big problem.

If you are going to put it that way, it is an insoluble problem.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

1: I pass.
2: Partner has at least five Hearts and at least four Diamonds, Hearts being longer or the suits equal. In partner's judgement, the hand is worth a game force. Partner _might_ have only a three-card Diamond fragment in a very strong hand with an extremely long Heart suit.
--
Will in Pompano Beach

"in partner's judgement ... worth a game force."
That is not the same as worth a 5-level slam try by responder when holding something like opening values.
And that is the big problem.

If you are going to put it that way, it is an insoluble problem.
--
Will in Pompano Beach

Why? Reserve the game force for hands that offer decent play for game opposite the vast majority of responding hands.

Carl

[[e-mail]]

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I held
3
AJ9762
653
QJ5
Aggregate scoring (Christmas party evening so not a proper bridge session), no-one vuln. Partner passes, RHO opens 1S. What do you do?
1H 1S
3D
Playing 5 card majors, what type of hand do you expect opener to have?

1: I pass.
2: Partner has at least five Hearts and at least four Diamonds, Hearts being longer or the suits equal. In partner's judgement, the hand is worth a game force. Partner _might_ have only a three-card Diamond fragment in a very strong hand with an extremely long Heart suit.
--
Will in Pompano Beach

"in partner's judgement ... worth a game force."
That is not the same as worth a 5-level slam try by responder when holding something like opening values.
And that is the big problem.

If you are going to put it that way, it is an insoluble problem.
--
Will in Pompano Beach

Why? Reserve the game force for hands that offer decent play for game opposite the vast majority of responding hands.
Carl

I meant the vast majority of *minimum* responding hands.

Carl