Bergen raises after opponents bid

[Koen Grauwels]

I started to play some kind of Bergen raises with my parter. 2NT and
higher bids after partner opened do promise fit and different point
ranges & distributions.
But what is normally agreed after opponents interference?
Until what level do you play this?
E.g.:
1H - (2S) - ??
- Is 2NT still Bergen raise or is it limit with S stopper(s).
- Is 3c a fit bid or is it real clubs
Same questions after
1S - (2H) - ??
1H - (3c) - ??
==>
I know that this is a matter of partner agreement, but I'm interested to
know what your experience/advice is on this. Or did Bergen have any
advice on it?

[Gordon Rainsford]

Post by Koen Grauwels
I started to play some kind of Bergen raises with my parter. 2NT and
higher bids after partner opened do promise fit and different point
ranges & distributions.
But what is normally agreed after opponents interference?
Until what level do you play this?
1H - (2S) - ??
- Is 2NT still Bergen raise or is it limit with S stopper(s).

I'm not quite sure what this means, since 2NT/1NT wouldn't be a Bergen
bid anyway.

Post by Koen Grauwels
- Is 3c a fit bid or is it real clubs

3C would normally be clubs, unless it's a passed hand in which case
logic suggests it should be a fit bid.

Post by Koen Grauwels
Same questions after
1S - (2H) - ??
1H - (3c) - ??
==>

I think minimum suit bids by an unpassed partner should all be natural.
The other important point to consider is whether they should be forcing
or not.

Post by Koen Grauwels
I know that this is a matter of partner agreement, but I'm interested to
know what your experience/advice is on this. Or did Bergen have any
advice on it?

Usually Bergen raises don't apply in competition - otherwise you might
well have no method of bidding those suits naturally.

Furthermore, you have the cue-bid of the opponents suit available to
show a limit raise or better, so the jump-raise can remain pre-emptive.

If you really want to have third (constructive/mixed) raise available,
you could use the jump to the suit below partner's to show this - eg
1S-(2C)-3H. Other than that, I like jumps in competition to be
fit-jumps.

[Raija]

Post by Koen Grauwels
I started to play some kind of Bergen raises with my parter. 2NT and
higher bids after partner opened do promise fit and different point
ranges & distributions.
But what is normally agreed after opponents interference?
Until what level do you play this?
1H - (2S) - ??
- Is 2NT still Bergen raise or is it limit with S stopper(s).
- Is 3c a fit bid or is it real clubs
Same questions after
1S - (2H) - ??
1H - (3c) - ??
==>
I know that this is a matter of partner agreement, but I'm interested to
know what your experience/advice is on this. Or did Bergen have any
advice on it?

Hi,
As described in all Bergen Raises description, literature on it, and online
websites, the Bergen Raises are off in competition and off by passed hand.
Also, 1S-2NT is Jacoby 2NT (gf raise) and not part of Bergen Raises although
using Bergen raises it is needed with gameforcing hands or strong splinter
raise hands.
Raija Davis

[Glen Ashton]

As described by RD below standard Bergen is off in comp and by passed hand.

However with the system that my wife and I use, agreements are relatively
fixed - so we play Bergen 3C and 3D raises after our 1M opening AND our 1M
overcall, as long as the 3C or 3D bid is a jump. This has worked
surprisingly well in practice. So, for example, we open 1H, they overcall
2C, if we bid 3D it is still a Bergen raise. For another example they open
1D, we bid 1S, they double, then both 3C and 3D are still Bergen raises.
This approach as noted is very non-standard towards Bergen raises. It has
three advantages: 1) It is frequent, 2) It is consistent, and 3) it works.
It has significant disadvantage of not being tailored for the situation - in
particular no consideration is given towards the difference of an opening to
an overcall and to pass hand versus unpassed hand status. It also loses fit
showing jump shifts for these bids, which are valuable in competition.

Glen

Post by Raija

Post by Koen Grauwels
I started to play some kind of Bergen raises with my parter. 2NT and
higher bids after partner opened do promise fit and different point
ranges & distributions.
But what is normally agreed after opponents interference?
Until what level do you play this?
1H - (2S) - ??
- Is 2NT still Bergen raise or is it limit with S stopper(s).
- Is 3c a fit bid or is it real clubs
Same questions after
1S - (2H) - ??
1H - (3c) - ??
==>
I know that this is a matter of partner agreement, but I'm interested to
know what your experience/advice is on this. Or did Bergen have any
advice on it?

Hi,
As described in all Bergen Raises description, literature on it, and online
websites, the Bergen Raises are off in competition and off by passed hand.
Also, 1S-2NT is Jacoby 2NT (gf raise) and not part of Bergen Raises although
using Bergen raises it is needed with gameforcing hands or strong splinter
raise hands.
Raija Davis

[Henrik Steensland]

Post by Raija
Also, 1S-2NT is Jacoby 2NT (gf raise) and not part of Bergen Raises although
using Bergen raises it is needed with gameforcing hands or strong splinter
raise hands.

So, is Jacoby 2NT on in competition? After level 1-overcall? Level 2?

[Glen Ashton]

At first we had Jacoby 2NT on in competition after an opening or overcall -
however it came up infrequently after an overcall (like never), so Jacoby
2NT (not my fav. convention) is on after a major suit opening if 2NT is a
jump, but does not apply after a major suit overcall.

Post by Raija

Post by Raija
Also, 1S-2NT is Jacoby 2NT (gf raise) and not part of Bergen Raises

although

Post by Raija
using Bergen raises it is needed with gameforcing hands or strong splinter
raise hands.

So, is Jacoby 2NT on in competition? After level 1-overcall? Level 2?

[Sid Ismail]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 03:21:44 +0200, "Henrik Steensland"
<***@hotmail.com> wrote:

: > Also, 1S-2NT is Jacoby 2NT (gf raise) and not part of Bergen Raises
: although
: > using Bergen raises it is needed with gameforcing hands or strong splinter
: > raise hands.

: So, is Jacoby 2NT on in competition? After level 1-overcall? Level 2?
:

Nope. 2NT is natural - frequency of occurence.
The cue bid is available as a 10+ support.

Sid

[Ed Reppert]

Post by Raija
As described in all Bergen Raises description, literature on it, and online
websites, the Bergen Raises are off in competition and off by passed hand.
Also, 1S-2NT is Jacoby 2NT (gf raise) and not part of Bergen Raises although
using Bergen raises it is needed with gameforcing hands or strong splinter
raise hands.

I suppose whether Jacoby 2NT is part of Bergen Raises or not depends on
what you define Bergen Raises to be. Certainly Marty Bergen, in his
description of the method in "Better Bidding With Bergen", included
Jacoby 2NT (among other things) in the structure.

[Sid Ismail]

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 12:02:18 +0200, Koen Grauwels <***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

: 1H - (2S) - ??
: - Is 2NT still Bergen raise or is it limit with S stopper(s).

Limit with stopper(s). Bergen is OFF in comp.

: - Is 3c a fit bid or is it real clubs

Clubs.
3S is a strong raise to 4H.


: Same questions after
: 1S - (2H) - ??

3H is 10+ raise in spades.

: 1H - (3c) - ??

4C is game hand, heart support.

Sid

[m***@prodigy.net]

Post by Koen Grauwels
I started to play some kind of Bergen raises with my parter. 2NT and
higher bids after partner opened do promise fit and different point
ranges & distributions.
But what is normally agreed after opponents interference?
Until what level do you play this?
1H - (2S) - ??
- Is 2NT still Bergen raise or is it limit with S stopper(s).
- Is 3c a fit bid or is it real clubs
Same questions after
1S - (2H) - ??
1H - (3c) - ??
==>
I know that this is a matter of partner agreement, but I'm interested to
know what your experience/advice is on this. Or did Bergen have any
advice on it?

You're going to hear differently from others, but my partners with
whom I play the Bergen Raise Structure and I *ALL* leave Bergen on AT
LEAST in 1H-(1S) and 1M-(1NT) and by a passed hand. Some even leave it
on up through 2NT (or even 3C). It is extremely useful to know what
strength a partner has with 4-card support. This makes it difficult to
show a 6 card non-fit over interference, but nothing comes for free.

The people who don't use the Bergen Raise Structure by a passed hand
use Drury. I generally don't play Drury. The reason is that I don't
want partners opening 4-card majors (If you are really stuck, we
usually play mini-Roman) and think that, if you are going to open 9
HCP hands with a 5-card suit, you should open 2. Not only does it
better describe your hand, but your partner is about 5 times less
likely to do the wrong thing.

[Vlastimil Lev]

please just take in mind - in Poland they use Lebensohl in this sequence,
e.g.

1H (2S) 2N = forces opener to bid 3C with hands: weak with Cs (pass), weak
with Ds (3D), invite values (3H), whereas

1H (2S) 3H is competitive

and any cue-bid:
1S (2H) 3H is general GF bid

cheers,

vlastimil

Post by Koen Grauwels
I started to play some kind of Bergen raises with my parter. 2NT and
higher bids after partner opened do promise fit and different point
ranges & distributions.
But what is normally agreed after opponents interference?
Until what level do you play this?
1H - (2S) - ??
- Is 2NT still Bergen raise or is it limit with S stopper(s).
- Is 3c a fit bid or is it real clubs
Same questions after
1S - (2H) - ??
1H - (3c) - ??
==>
I know that this is a matter of partner agreement, but I'm interested to
know what your experience/advice is on this. Or did Bergen have any
advice on it?

[Micha Keijzers]

Disadvantage is that you can not bid 2NT with 11HCP and good stop S?

Of the hands that would bid 2NT some are worth stretching to bid 3NT.
Sometimes a (trap) pass is in order or sometimes you can make a negative
double.

Thus, besides that 2NT is almost never the correct bid, you have ways of
working around 2NT, which justifies making 2NT artificial. FWIW I play
it as a transfer (Rubensohl) to clubs.

In addition, one could take a look at "Partnership bidding at bridge" by
Robson and Segal. Based on that I play 2NT in 1M-(2X)-2NT as a 4-crd
limit raise in support of M. I've never missed the natural 2NT bid!

Cheers, Micha
Nijmegen, Netherlands

Post by Vlastimil Lev
please just take in mind - in Poland they use Lebensohl in this sequence,
e.g.
1H (2S) 2N = forces opener to bid 3C with hands: weak with Cs (pass), weak
with Ds (3D), invite values (3H), whereas
1H (2S) 3H is competitive
1S (2H) 3H is general GF bid
cheers,
vlastimil

Post by Koen Grauwels
I started to play some kind of Bergen raises with my parter. 2NT and
higher bids after partner opened do promise fit and different point
ranges & distributions.
But what is normally agreed after opponents interference?
Until what level do you play this?
1H - (2S) - ??
- Is 2NT still Bergen raise or is it limit with S stopper(s).
- Is 3c a fit bid or is it real clubs
Same questions after
1S - (2H) - ??
1H - (3c) - ??
==>
I know that this is a matter of partner agreement, but I'm interested to
know what your experience/advice is on this. Or did Bergen have any
advice on it?