Post by ais523 Post by nrford100
MPs, No vul., South deals.
3C-3S- Now what?
* Strength showing, forcing. Better than Double?
How many diamonds did 1D show? If four, then I wouldn't just be making a
slam *try* as North; I would be near-certain that 6D would make
opposite the vast majority of opening-bid hands that had four diamonds,
and consider scientific bidding useful only for looking for
I would call 3S (rather than 2S) at North's first turn to call, showing
specifically strength and spade shortage, together with diamond support.
This would not only give South a good clue as to what the hand is about,
it would also make it clear that a spade stop was missing (when South
fails to respond 3NT), meaning that North can immediately rule out
notrump slams. This also makes it much harder for the opponents to
How the bidding goes from there depends a lot on what slam conventions
you use. I think most likely, North asks for keycards or
keycards-outside-spades (knowing that South doesn't have the SA, a
"regular" keycard ask will give unambiguous information despite the
void), asks for Kings as a grand slam try even though South has not yet
shown any more than a minimum, and South just bids the grand (J32 is a
great holding opposite a void or a singleton Ace, and the doubleton
heart is very likely to be useful).
The main disadvantage in this bidding, from North's point of view, is
that it gives up on the chance of potentially making the extra points
for 6H, but with a 9-card diamond fit it's unlikely that hearts is
better (and some slam conventions allow you to suggest a new suit after
determining that you have the values for slam).
It's much harder to find the slam (let alone grand slam) if 1D could be
on only 3 cards, because North isn't strong enough to slam force and
the 1S overcall throws a spanner in the works of determining suit
lengths. As always, the vaguer your opening bid, the more vulnerable it
is to pre-emption.
By the way, I don't think a double by North is necessarily weaker or
stronger than the 2S cue bid; the minimum of the double is weaker, but
either bid could be very strong. Rather, a double tends to indicate
shorter diamonds (suggesting looking for a heart fit), and the cue bid
tends to indicate longer diamonds (suggesting that at least one viable
fit is already known). In competitive auctions, it's very important
to let partner know whether to spend your (potentially pre-empted)
bidding space on looking for a fit, or whether to spend it on
establishing the correct level, because your opponents typically won't
give you the space to do both. So the cue bid tends to carry
connotations of already knowing what the correct suit to play in is.
I should have specified Standard American.
1D normally shows 4, but it could show 3 if 4=4=3=2.
Is opening this 1D any vaguer than 1C? For example,
almost everyone in our club plays Inverted Minors,
but don't you lose the chance to make a weak 1C-3C
raise with 5 clubs if opener can have just 2?
According to experts I've read (such as Larry Cohen:)
"A Splinter shows enough for game, but not enough for
slam." That would make North's hand too strong for 3S.
I would be concerned about partner's jumping to 5D if
he thinks I'm limited to 15.
I do like the idea of using Exclusion, but not a lot
of people around here play it. I believe that the usual
definition of Exclusion is a *jump* to 4 of the void suit.
In this auction, 4S would not be a jump, but when playing
Exclusion, I don't know what else it could be, although
as noted below, 2S doesn't agree diamonds in SAYC, so even
if pard takes 4S as Exclusion, he may think that it's in
support of his last natural suit bid (clubs, in this case).
Regarding: "the cue bid tends to indicate longer diamonds." -
"In SAYC, a cue bid is simply a forcing bid which can be used with
any good hand for which no better bid is available. It may or may
not be a raise. This is clarified by subsequent bidding."