Stayman overcalled

[Dave Flower]

For the record, playing a weak no-trump and garbage Stayman, the bidding goes:

1NT pass 2C 2D
pass pass ?

Do posters have any agreements as to the meaning of 2NT or 3D ?

Dave Flower

PS Posters might also like to consider the case where the overcall is in a major

[Ronald]

Post by Dave Flower
1NT pass 2C 2D
pass pass ?
Do posters have any agreements as to the meaning of 2NT or 3D ?
Dave Flower
PS Posters might also like to consider the case where the overcall is in a major

Same as 1N-(2D)-? 2N Lebensohl, 3D repeat Stayman without D-stopper.

[p***@infi.net]

Post by Dave Flower
1NT pass 2C 2D
pass pass ?
Do posters have any agreements as to the meaning of 2NT or 3D ?
Dave Flower
PS Posters might also like to consider the case where the overcall is in a major

You should perhaps define "Garbage Stayman"; which rebids are weak? BWS defined only pass and 2H over 2D as weak. With that agreement, rebids in this case would be much the same as if opener had rebid 2D: 2H weak, 2S or 2NT invitational, 3C and 3D forcing, 3 of a major forcing, 3NT to play. Since a hand with game-going values and legitimate diamonds could presumably double, 3D would logically show game values but no diamond stop.

If other rebids besides 2H could be weak, then perhaps a lebensohl scheme would make sense. But there is no sense catering to a 4-6 hand that would not have bid Stayman in the first place under the BWS rule.

[richlp]

Post by Dave Flower
1NT pass 2C 2D
pass pass ?
Do posters have any agreements as to the meaning of 2NT or 3D ?
Dave Flower
PS Posters might also like to consider the case where the overcall is in a major

I've never had an agreement about this auction even when I had an established partnership.

My guess is that
pass is to play - thanks for taking us off the hook
2H is the garbage stayman continuation
X could be a Stayman continuation with at least invitational values and a diamond stop
3D would be Stayman continuation with no diamond stop. Not sure how to handle the continuations if it shows only invitational value, so this is game force.

3H/3S continue to be what they would have been without interference and partner's 2D rebid.

I think 3C should be the same.

Not sure about 2NT

[[e-mail]]

Post by richlp
2H is the garbage stayman continuation

I can't conceive of a hand where this would be right. You bid garbage Stayman (I deeply hate the name) because you want to escape from 1NT.

Carl

[richlp]

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by richlp
2H is the garbage stayman continuation

I can't conceive of a hand where this would be right. You bid garbage Stayman (I deeply hate the name) because you want to escape from 1NT.
Carl

What I had in mind was a simple default meaning for the bid, not what it should mean in well-honed partnership. As for a hand where I would use this bid......

Jxxxx
Qxxxx
x
xx

[Lorne Anderson]

Post by Dave Flower
1NT pass 2C 2D
pass pass ?
Do posters have any agreements as to the meaning of 2NT or 3D ?
Dave Flower
PS Posters might also like to consider the case where the overcall is in a major

IMO opener should make the normal 2H/S response (or dble with no major)
with no D stop, and pass with any hand with D values. Responder is now
in good shape to continue and 2N would be invitational and 3D asks for a
major if you passed 2D.

[Douglas Newlands]

Post by Dave Flower
1NT pass 2C 2D
pass pass ?
Do posters have any agreements as to the meaning of 2NT or 3D ?
Dave Flower
PS Posters might also like to consider the case where the overcall is in a major

Perhaps this should be the same as 1N P 2C X.
Both give you two chances to respond to stayman.
One is the immediate response and the other is to pass now and then show
majors over the 2C bidder's subsequent X or XX.
One way should deny a stopper in the opponents' suit
and the other should show a stopper in their suit.

Personally, I play stayman as inv+ and have no truck with
garbage/crawling or any other weak variant.

doug