Signaling Post-Mortem

Post by P***@yahoo.com
We are defending against a contract bid 1N-3N-All Pass. (They play a 15-17 1N opening.)
S: QJ2
H: J8653
D: K7
C: K96
S: AK
H: Q97
D: QT63
C: J642
The first thing I note is that partner can't have more than 3 HCPs in his hand. Partner might have five spades to the T, or he might have only four spades or be missing the ST. If he has five spades to the T, then I need to unblock to get to his hand. So, I throw the SQ (which we play as guaranteeing the SJ) and declarer follows with the S6. Next, declarer leads the DQ from dummy, I cover with the DK and declarer takes the DA. Then declarer leads the D9, and partner ducks. Another diamond from declarer and partner takes the DJ and I have to find a discard. From
S: J2
H: J8653
D: -
C: K96
what should I have discarded?
My thinking is "If partner has five spades to the T, I want him to continue spades, whereupon I will dump my SJ. If partner doesn't have the T or doesn't have five spades I want him to switch because otherwise we'll be giving declarer a trick if he leads a spade and I dump my SJ. If he switches, I'd much rather him play hearts than clubs." So, what do I discard to get this message to partner?
My choice was the H5, and partner didn't continue the spades but switched to a HT.
S: T87543
H: T2
D: J52
C: QT
It was clear in the post mortem that partner needed to continue a spade, and the contract will make no overtricks if he does. Partner said that he knew I had the SQJ, but didn't know whether it was a doubleton or not. And, partner said that he took my H5 signal as "High" and took it as demanding a switch to hearts. My opinion was that he didn't know whether or not declarer had the AK43 of hearts and so couldn't tell if my H5 was high. Moreover, my signal to switch to a heart should be as high as I can afford, and how can that be the H5? Partner responded that the correct signal to encourage a spade lead was the H3. I countered that if he didn't have the ST I didn't want him to continue a spade and switching to hearts would be lots better than switching to clubs.
We never did resolve this argument, so I thought I'd put it to the forum to give us your opinions. What went wrong in the signaling here?
---------
Is my partner's S5 lead right? Based on the Opening NT Leads book by Bird / Anthias on leads after 1N-3N, I would have led the HT to find my partner's long suit as it's very unlikely there are entries enough to set up the leader's six-card spade suit. What do you think?

I presume from the comment about overtricks that this is matchpoints.
Personally, I like MUD and will lead the S8 and partner can tell from
the auction that I have the 10 but no honour.
That alone solves your problem.

The problem for avid signallers is whether partner's signal is a
command, a suggestion or merely shows the location of an honour.
You can find all sorts in any club.
I prefer all discards just to be count in that suit and would
discard the H3 (natural present count) and expect partner to
continue spades.

In a club matchpoint event, the spade lead looks perfectly normal
and keeps you with the field when you are not sure what to do.
It's also not likely to lose a trick for the defence.
If it were teams, when the aim is to defeat the contract rather
than restrict overtricks, the H10 looks much more appetising.

doug

P***@yahoo.com

2016-09-27 10:52:35 UTC

I presume from the comment about overtricks that this is matchpoints.
Personally, I like MUD and will lead the S8 and partner can tell from
the auction that I have the 10 but no honour.
That alone solves your problem.
The problem for avid signallers is whether partner's signal is a
command, a suggestion or merely shows the location of an honour.
You can find all sorts in any club.
I prefer all discards just to be count in that suit and would
discard the H3 (natural present count) and expect partner to
continue spades.
In a club matchpoint event, the spade lead looks perfectly normal
and keeps you with the field when you are not sure what to do.
It's also not likely to lose a trick for the defence.
If it were teams, when the aim is to defeat the contract rather
than restrict overtricks, the H10 looks much more appetising.
doug

Thanks, Doug, as always. I'm intrigued by your MUD reference.

One of my partners recommends leading second from a long suit headed by the 9 or lower, in which case he says the lead of a 5 would guarantee a T or higher because he would have led the 8 if he didn't have the T. That would have clarified things on this auction but it seems at odds with your MUD suggestion in which you say the lead of the S8 would show partner the ST. Can you help clarify this please? Thanks!

Douglas Newlands

2016-09-27 23:40:43 UTC

I presume from the comment about overtricks that this is matchpoints.
Personally, I like MUD and will lead the S8 and partner can tell from
the auction that I have the 10 but no honour.
That alone solves your problem.
The problem for avid signallers is whether partner's signal is a
command, a suggestion or merely shows the location of an honour.
You can find all sorts in any club.
I prefer all discards just to be count in that suit and would
discard the H3 (natural present count) and expect partner to
continue spades.
In a club matchpoint event, the spade lead looks perfectly normal
and keeps you with the field when you are not sure what to do.
It's also not likely to lose a trick for the defence.
If it were teams, when the aim is to defeat the contract rather
than restrict overtricks, the H10 looks much more appetising.
doug

Thanks, Doug, as always. I'm intrigued by your MUD reference.
One of my partners recommends leading second from a long suit headed by the 9 or lower, in which case he says the lead of a 5 would guarantee a T or higher because he would have led the 8 if he didn't have the T. That would have clarified things on this auction but it seems at odds with your MUD suggestion in which you say the lead of the S8 would show partner the ST. Can you help clarify this please? Thanks!

I play that a small card promises one of the A, K, Q or J.
The ten is considered a spot card and not an honour for leading purposes.
Holdings with only spot cards use MUD so with 3 or 5 lead second top
then top. With 4 or 6, lead 2nd top then bottom.
I do not treat 1098, 9876 etc as sequences so lead 2nd top.
The ten is overloaded to be 10, 10x, AJ10, A109, KJ10, K109, Q109.
I believe this is much clearer than 0 or 2 higher or the traditional
card. Sure declarer can read it as well but the defence are often
desperate for some clear insight into the hand.

As you might surmise, I depend on count so (apart from an attitude
signal on a suit first led by us), everything is count.
This includes discards which are count in that suit.
There are no SP discards in any strong sense but one tries to discard
in irrelevant suits early on.
There are some places where a card will have SP overtones but that is
entirely secondary to count.

This dependence on count means you have to do a bit of thinking
but that's part of the pleasure of the game, isn't it.

doug

P***@yahoo.com

2016-09-28 03:47:57 UTC

I presume from the comment about overtricks that this is matchpoints.
Personally, I like MUD and will lead the S8 and partner can tell from
the auction that I have the 10 but no honour.
That alone solves your problem.
The problem for avid signallers is whether partner's signal is a
command, a suggestion or merely shows the location of an honour.
You can find all sorts in any club.
I prefer all discards just to be count in that suit and would
discard the H3 (natural present count) and expect partner to
continue spades.
In a club matchpoint event, the spade lead looks perfectly normal
and keeps you with the field when you are not sure what to do.
It's also not likely to lose a trick for the defence.
If it were teams, when the aim is to defeat the contract rather
than restrict overtricks, the H10 looks much more appetising.
doug

Thanks, Doug, as always. I'm intrigued by your MUD reference.
One of my partners recommends leading second from a long suit headed by the 9 or lower, in which case he says the lead of a 5 would guarantee a T or higher because he would have led the 8 if he didn't have the T. That would have clarified things on this auction but it seems at odds with your MUD suggestion in which you say the lead of the S8 would show partner the ST. Can you help clarify this please? Thanks!

I play that a small card promises one of the A, K, Q or J.
The ten is considered a spot card and not an honour for leading purposes.
Holdings with only spot cards use MUD so with 3 or 5 lead second top
then top. With 4 or 6, lead 2nd top then bottom.
I do not treat 1098, 9876 etc as sequences so lead 2nd top.
The ten is overloaded to be 10, 10x, AJ10, A109, KJ10, K109, Q109.
I believe this is much clearer than 0 or 2 higher or the traditional
card. Sure declarer can read it as well but the defence are often
desperate for some clear insight into the hand.
As you might surmise, I depend on count so (apart from an attitude
signal on a suit first led by us), everything is count.
This includes discards which are count in that suit.
There are no SP discards in any strong sense but one tries to discard
in irrelevant suits early on.
There are some places where a card will have SP overtones but that is
entirely secondary to count.
This dependence on count means you have to do a bit of thinking
but that's part of the pleasure of the game, isn't it.
doug

Thanks...the reliance on count is interesting.

If the T is treated like a spot card (exactly the same as the 9, right?), then I still don't see how "partner can see I have the ten and no honor." on the lead of S8. It can be from the S98xxx, can't it?

Douglas Newlands

2016-09-28 06:21:50 UTC

I presume from the comment about overtricks that this is matchpoints.
Personally, I like MUD and will lead the S8 and partner can tell from
the auction that I have the 10 but no honour.
That alone solves your problem.
The problem for avid signallers is whether partner's signal is a
command, a suggestion or merely shows the location of an honour.
You can find all sorts in any club.
I prefer all discards just to be count in that suit and would
discard the H3 (natural present count) and expect partner to
continue spades.
In a club matchpoint event, the spade lead looks perfectly normal
and keeps you with the field when you are not sure what to do.
It's also not likely to lose a trick for the defence.
If it were teams, when the aim is to defeat the contract rather
than restrict overtricks, the H10 looks much more appetising.
doug

Thanks, Doug, as always. I'm intrigued by your MUD reference.
One of my partners recommends leading second from a long suit headed by the 9 or lower, in which case he says the lead of a 5 would guarantee a T or higher because he would have led the 8 if he didn't have the T. That would have clarified things on this auction but it seems at odds with your MUD suggestion in which you say the lead of the S8 would show partner the ST. Can you help clarify this please? Thanks!

I play that a small card promises one of the A, K, Q or J.
The ten is considered a spot card and not an honour for leading purposes.
Holdings with only spot cards use MUD so with 3 or 5 lead second top
then top. With 4 or 6, lead 2nd top then bottom.
I do not treat 1098, 9876 etc as sequences so lead 2nd top.
The ten is overloaded to be 10, 10x, AJ10, A109, KJ10, K109, Q109.
I believe this is much clearer than 0 or 2 higher or the traditional
card. Sure declarer can read it as well but the defence are often
desperate for some clear insight into the hand.
As you might surmise, I depend on count so (apart from an attitude
signal on a suit first led by us), everything is count.
This includes discards which are count in that suit.
There are no SP discards in any strong sense but one tries to discard
in irrelevant suits early on.
There are some places where a card will have SP overtones but that is
entirely secondary to count.
This dependence on count means you have to do a bit of thinking
but that's part of the pleasure of the game, isn't it.
doug

Thanks...the reliance on count is interesting.
If the T is treated like a spot card (exactly the same as the 9, right?), then I still don't see how "partner can see I have the ten and no honor." on the lead of S8. It can be from the S98xxx, can't it?

Yes, sorry I seemed to get it in my mind that east had QJ9.

doug

smn

2016-09-27 05:04:20 UTC

I think that you want partner to continue spades ,you should signal a discouraging card in hearts -the 3 ,not the ambiguous 5 , partner can see his hand -let him worry about whether he has the T .You can't control and don't want to control partner ,your just telling partner about your hand .continue spades is your message .If its wrong , and partner thinks he must switch ,it is true that you prefer a heart but you can't afford a club discard ,you must try to protect your club king . So I think it was your fault that partner didn't continue ,or fairer ,you didn't help partner .smn

P***@yahoo.com

2016-09-27 10:44:52 UTC

Post by smn

Thanks, this is well taken, a fair criticism...and I learned something from it.

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2016-09-27 13:27:14 UTC

Post by P***@yahoo.com
My choice was the H5,

It is probably irrelevant to the problem, but why did you select the 5? If your discard indicates attitude in the suit, you play either the 3 (lowest) or the 6 (highest among cards without trick-taking potential).

Carl

P***@yahoo.com

2016-09-28 03:50:51 UTC

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by P***@yahoo.com
My choice was the H5,

My thought process was that the H5 was ambiguous. I thought my partner would work out to continue a spade if he held the ST and if he knows (and he does know) that I have the CJ in my hand. If he didn't have the ST, then I thought he would want to switch to something and my ambiguous heart signal wouldn't tell him to switch to a club...the worst possible switch.

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2016-09-28 13:24:34 UTC

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by P***@yahoo.com
My choice was the H5,

What is worst possible about clubs?

Never in the history of bridge has an ambiguous signal worked.

Carl

Lorne Anderson

2016-09-28 11:21:58 UTC

It is clear from your hand you do not want a switch so any card that
risks a switch is dangerous. Having got spade continuation you want to
know whether to ditch the J and IMO partner can tell you by switching to
his lowest spade when he has the 10 and a high one (say the 7 from
97653) when he does not.

f***@googlemail.com

2016-09-29 10:05:26 UTC

Your thinking here is slightly flawed. You probably want partner to continue spades either way; but you don't know whether to unblock or not. Although if declarer has 109xx AKx A8xx Ax you want partner to switch to a club; you never want a heart switch.

I think the best think you can do is discourage hearts. Partner if continuing spade should show by his spade pip whether he has led from n low rather than 4th highest from an honour

Post by P***@yahoo.com
My choice was the H5, and partner didn't continue the spades but switched to a HT.
S: T87543
H: T2
D: J52
C: QT
It was clear in the post mortem that partner needed to continue a spade, and the contract will make no overtricks if he does. Partner said that he knew I had the SQJ, but didn't know whether it was a doubleton or not. And, partner said that he took my H5 signal as "High" and took it as demanding a switch to hearts. My opinion was that he didn't know whether or not declarer had the AK43 of hearts and so couldn't tell if my H5 was high. Moreover, my signal to switch to a heart should be as high as I can afford, and how can that be the H5? Partner responded that the correct signal to encourage a spade lead was the H3. I countered that if he didn't have the ST I didn't want him to continue a spade and switching to hearts would be lots better than switching to clubs.
We never did resolve this argument, so I thought I'd put it to the forum to give us your opinions. What went wrong in the signaling here?
---------
Is my partner's S5 lead right? Based on the Opening NT Leads book by Bird / Anthias on leads after 1N-3N, I would have led the HT to find my partner's long suit as it's very unlikely there are entries enough to set up the leader's six-card spade suit. What do you think?

P***@yahoo.com

2016-09-29 12:26:14 UTC