What is this double ?

[Dave Flower]

That is the redoubler's double

1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble

Dave Flower

[f***@googlemail.com]

Post by Dave Flower
That is the redoubler's double
1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble
Dave Flower

Without specific agreement otherwise, pass of 1S was forcing and the double is penalties.

(I happen to play this as take-out but that is not standard)

[Lorne]

Post by Dave Flower
That is the redoubler's double
1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble
Dave Flower

It has the same meaning as double by opener would have had.

So without discussion double by either player = penalties.

With discussion you can agree double by either player is T/O. What you
should not do is agree that double is T/O in one seat and penalty in the
other as that leaves you unable to penalise them if the wrong person has
the trump stack.

There is an analgous situation if you double 1N for penlties, ie:

(1N) dble (2any) dble; or

(1N) dble (2any) P
(P) dble.

Without discussion the last dble is penlties but where I live (weak NT
teritory) most good pairs agree to play the last dble as T/O.

[Will in New Haven]

Post by Dave Flower
That is the redoubler's double
1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble
Dave Flower

The standard meaning of the bid is penalties but lots of people play it for takeout. The way I see it, partner's pass is forcing, so he or she could have made a penalty double. I can't _make_ a forcing pass and a penalty double at the one-level is a much rarer bird than a hand where I would want to compete, so I would play that double as takeout by preference.

This is two posts in a row where I have argued against, first a penalty pass and now a penalty double. I am getting soft.

[Lorne]

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by Dave Flower
That is the redoubler's double
1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble
Dave Flower

The standard meaning of the bid is penalties but lots of people play it for takeout. The way I see it, partner's pass is forcing, so he or she could have made a penalty double. I can't _make_ a forcing pass and a penalty double at the one-level is a much rarer bird than a hand where I would want to compete, so I would play that double as takeout by preference.
This is two posts in a row where I have argued against, first a penalty pass and now a penalty double. I am getting soft.

The forcing pass situation is worth discussing. I tend to play pass is
forcing if the oppo have rested in 2D or below regardless of opening
bid, but not if they bid higher. This also applies if we double 1N and
they rest in 2C/2D.

Interested to know if people have dother ideas on this.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by Dave Flower
That is the redoubler's double
1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble
Dave Flower

The standard meaning of the bid is penalties but lots of people play it for takeout. The way I see it, partner's pass is forcing, so he or she could have made a penalty double. I can't _make_ a forcing pass and a penalty double at the one-level is a much rarer bird than a hand where I would want to compete, so I would play that double as takeout by preference.
This is two posts in a row where I have argued against, first a penalty pass and now a penalty double. I am getting soft.
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach

What shape do you envision for that "takeout double"? 3=1=54? Then why did you redouble? What does opener's pass mean if your double is takeout? Would opener's double have been takeout also?

Most important: In these days, how can you trust the opponents to have 7+ spades?

Carl

[Will in New Haven]

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by Dave Flower
That is the redoubler's double
1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble
Dave Flower

The standard meaning of the bid is penalties but lots of people play it for takeout. The way I see it, partner's pass is forcing, so he or she could have made a penalty double. I can't _make_ a forcing pass and a penalty double at the one-level is a much rarer bird than a hand where I would want to compete, so I would play that double as takeout by preference.
This is two posts in a row where I have argued against, first a penalty pass and now a penalty double. I am getting soft.
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach

What shape do you envision for that "takeout double"? 3=1=54? Then why did you redouble? What does opener's pass mean if your double is takeout? Would opener's double have been takeout also?

No, opener's double would not be for takeout. He or she knows I have a limited number of Hearts and cards and is in a good position to make a penalty double. Since a forcing pass is available to opener, no takeout double is needed. A forcing pass is a takeout pass.

I could have redoubled with several shapes where a one-level penalty would not be the right choice, unless partner chose to leave in my double. 3-1-5-4 is among them.

Post by ***@verizon.net
Most important: In these days, how can you trust the opponents to have 7+ spades?

Partner knows that I am not _short_ in Spades. If I were, I either would not have redoubled or I would have bid at this point and not doubled. Partner will consider passing 1SX.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by Dave Flower
That is the redoubler's double
1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble
Dave Flower

The standard meaning of the bid is penalties but lots of people play it for takeout. The way I see it, partner's pass is forcing, so he or she could have made a penalty double. I can't _make_ a forcing pass and a penalty double at the one-level is a much rarer bird than a hand where I would want to compete, so I would play that double as takeout by preference.
This is two posts in a row where I have argued against, first a penalty pass and now a penalty double. I am getting soft.
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach

What shape do you envision for that "takeout double"? 3=1=54? Then why did you redouble? What does opener's pass mean if your double is takeout? Would opener's double have been takeout also?

No, opener's double would not be for takeout. He or she knows I have a limited number of Hearts and cards and is in a good position to make a penalty double. Since a forcing pass is available to opener, no takeout double is needed. A forcing pass is a takeout pass.
I could have redoubled with several shapes where a one-level penalty would not be the right choice, unless partner chose to leave in my double. 3-1-5-4 is among them.

Post by ***@verizon.net
Most important: In these days, how can you trust the opponents to have 7+ spades?

Partner knows that I am not _short_ in Spades. If I were, I either would not have redoubled or I would have bid at this point and not doubled. Partner will consider passing 1SX.
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach
https://sites.google.com/site/grreference/

It used to be true that after a redouble, whoever had 4 in the suit bid by the opps to double. When was the change documented? Any suit by the redoubler is tentative by definition. What need is there for 2nd round t/o double?

Carl

[[e-mail]]

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Will in New Haven

Post by Dave Flower
That is the redoubler's double
1H dble rdble 1S
pass pass dble
Dave Flower

The standard meaning of the bid is penalties but lots of people play it for takeout. The way I see it, partner's pass is forcing, so he or she could have made a penalty double. I can't _make_ a forcing pass and a penalty double at the one-level is a much rarer bird than a hand where I would want to compete, so I would play that double as takeout by preference.
This is two posts in a row where I have argued against, first a penalty pass and now a penalty double. I am getting soft.
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach

What shape do you envision for that "takeout double"? 3=1=54? Then why did you redouble? What does opener's pass mean if your double is takeout? Would opener's double have been takeout also?

No, opener's double would not be for takeout. He or she knows I have a limited number of Hearts and cards and is in a good position to make a penalty double. Since a forcing pass is available to opener, no takeout double is needed. A forcing pass is a takeout pass.
I could have redoubled with several shapes where a one-level penalty would not be the right choice, unless partner chose to leave in my double. 3-1-5-4 is among them.

Post by ***@verizon.net
Most important: In these days, how can you trust the opponents to have 7+ spades?

Partner knows that I am not _short_ in Spades. If I were, I either would not have redoubled or I would have bid at this point and not doubled. Partner will consider passing 1SX.
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach
https://sites.google.com/site/grreference/

Let me be clearer.

Opener's pass said "I don't know what to do."

If double says "I don't know what to do, either," how does that contribute to a plus score?

Carl