Discussion:
bidding judgement question
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a***@yahoo.co.uk
2018-12-09 23:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?

South
-
7652
T965
Q8754

Matchpoints

N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?

I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.

Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
Hotzenplotz
2018-12-10 00:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
3H is automatic.
Lorne
2018-12-10 00:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
1. Partner should bid 2N over 2S rather than a second double.
2. Are you sure bidding 3C was the error - you could still bid 4H over
3N given your hand rates to make several more tricks in hearts by
ruffing spades and the second double, although wrong IMO, guarantees 4
hearts when followed by 3N.
judyorcarl@verizon.net
2018-12-10 00:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
A player who makes an off-shape double is responsible for the result.

That goes quadruple for making a second off-shape.

Carl
Barry Margolin
2018-12-10 16:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@verizon.net
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am
holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT
going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
A player who makes an off-shape double is responsible for the result.
A power double will often be off-shape. In this case, the double was
showing a hand too strong to overcall 1NT.
Post by ***@verizon.net
That goes quadruple for making a second off-shape.
That's true. The way you show a 1.5 NT is by doubling and then bidding
NT, not by doubling again.

And when you have 20 HCP, and both opponents are bidding, you know that
partner has a near-Yarborough. If finesses need to be taken through
opener, it's going to be hard to get to partner's hand to take them.
--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA
judyorcarl@verizon.net
2018-12-10 22:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Margolin
Post by ***@verizon.net
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am
holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT
going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
A player who makes an off-shape double is responsible for the result.
A power double will often be off-shape. In this case, the double was
showing a hand too strong to overcall 1NT.
Post by ***@verizon.net
That goes quadruple for making a second off-shape.
That's true. The way you show a 1.5 NT is by doubling and then bidding
NT, not by doubling again.
And when you have 20 HCP, and both opponents are bidding, you know that
partner has a near-Yarborough. If finesses need to be taken through
opener, it's going to be hard to get to partner's hand to take them.
--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA
My meaning was not that you must not make an off-shape. It was that you must apologize if it works out badly.
Co Wiersma
2018-12-10 02:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
Usually one should pick the 4card major over the 5card minor
But here the hearts are very poor, so I can understand your choice
Maybe you worried partner has only 3card hearts?

Still I think your hand is not as bad as you think
with the void and all

Co Wiersma
Douglas Newlands
2018-12-10 04:30:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.
You have passed then passed over 2S so you are known to have a pile of
s**** so 2NT should now be two places to play rather than Leb.
Seems better than guessing a suit. Should get you to 3H.

doug
KWSchneider
2018-12-13 02:13:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
Partner is looking for four or more hearts from you - bidding clubs denies this. 3H is the bid I would make automatically.
Charles Brenner
2019-01-11 09:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
Bidding a minor (especially if longer) rather than 4-card major to slow partner down is a tactic that has its place under these two conditions:
1) pile of rubbish
2) no certain fit,
neither of which applies to the situation given. The void spade makes it not rubbish, and as several posters have pointed out the double doubler certainly guaranteed hearts.

Incidentally while 4H is admittedly a good contract as a practical matter, note that it is almost certainly down against a trump lead:
1. Win in hand.
2-6. Ruff the 3 small spades returning twice in diamonds & ending in dummy.
(Can't cash the spade ace before drawing trumps or LHO would ruff in front of the 3rd spade ruff.)
7-9. Lead a loser from dummy. Defense wins 3 minor suit tricks.
10. RHO leads a spade and LHO ruffs your ace.
(Or if LHO has a singleton trump various defenses work. Only if West has a hand like xxx,43,Jxxx,AJxx -- exactly those trumps -- is 4H unbeatable.)
11-13. Trump AKQ claim for down one.
f***@gmail.com
2019-01-12 04:01:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Here lies the question of when partner makes a takeout double and I am holding a pile of rubbish, do I show the best suit or the four card major?
South
-
7652
T965
Q8754
Matchpoints
N E S W
P 1S
X 2S P P
X P ?
I elected to show the club suit. Fatal error, partner converted to 3NT going down two. 4H can make.
Partners hand was AJ94 AKQT AQ4 63
Texas : 4H or a lot of points. So 3H mandatory

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