7NT Anyone ?

Post by Dave Flower
3 2
A J 7 6 5 4 3
7 5 3
8
A Q
K 2
A K Q
A K Q J 10 7
Dealer N, E/W vul., pairs
N E S W
3H pass 4NT pass
5D pass 7NT all pass
Three questions for starters . . .
1) Would you prefer to be playing straight Blackwood or RKCB, and why ?
2) How to you play the hand on the lead of DJ ?
3) We will let you see dummy before making any decision. You are allowed to select the opening lead; if it is out of turn, you have the usual options: accept lead, penalty card, require lead of the suit, forbid lead of the suit. What opening lead do you require, and what option do you select if it is out of turn ?
David Flower

1. RKCB - knowing about the Q in the preempt suit will be useful more
often that the times that the K response in that suit will cause a problem.

2. Cash clubs and diamonds keeping one spade and AJx of hearts in dummy.
Cash K then A of hearts taking the spade finesse if the J is not good.

3. Not sure the point of this question. You obviously select a spade
as the contract is now certain unless clubs are 6-0 and the hert Q is
not found.

Steve Willner

2016-08-18 01:11:44 UTC

Post by Lorne Anderson

Post by Dave Flower
3 2
A J 7 6 5 4 3
7 5 3
8
A Q
K 2
A K Q
A K Q J 10 7
2) How to you play the hand on the lead of DJ ?

2. Cash clubs and diamonds keeping one spade and AJx of hearts in dummy.
Cash K then A of hearts taking the spade finesse if the J is not good.

I'm sure Lorne would do better than this at the table.

1) if hearts are with East, there's a show-up squeeze, and the spade
finesse can't be winning. On a lucky day, the S-A will drop the K
(likely only if West misguidedly bared it).

2) if hearts are with West, you have a guess between the squeeze and
finesse. Usually you should be able to read the discards, but if not,
assume whoever started with more spades has the K. In a close case, you
might give some weight to West not having led a spade.

What I'm not sure of is, if East shows lots of minor-suit cards,
whether Charles' play of finessing H-J is better or worse than the combo
play of trying the drop, then a squeeze on West if the finesse would
have worked. The combo play is "sure tricks" if East has only two
major-suit cards, but I'm not sure about three or four.

Charles Brenner

2016-08-25 02:05:13 UTC

Post by Steve Willner

Post by Lorne Anderson

Post by Dave Flower
3 2
A J 7 6 5 4 3
7 5 3
8
A Q
K 2
A K Q
A K Q J 10 7
2) How to you play the hand on the lead of DJ ?

2. Cash clubs and diamonds keeping one spade and AJx of hearts in dummy.
Cash K then A of hearts taking the spade finesse if the J is not good.

I'm sure Lorne would do better than this at the table.
1) if hearts are with East, there's a show-up squeeze, and the spade
finesse can't be winning. On a lucky day, the S-A will drop the K
(likely only if West misguidedly bared it).
2) if hearts are with West, you have a guess between the squeeze and
finesse. Usually you should be able to read the discards, but if not,
assume whoever started with more spades has the K. In a close case, you
might give some weight to West not having led a spade.
What I'm not sure of is, if East shows lots of minor-suit cards,
whether Charles' play of finessing H-J is better or worse than the combo
play of trying the drop, then a squeeze on West if the finesse would
have worked. The combo play is "sure tricks" if East has only two
major-suit cards, but I'm not sure about three or four.

Excellent point. I overlooked the squeeze and considered only heart finesse versus the combination of heart drop and spade finesse. But my heart finesse is *never* better than your squeeze. Whom to play for the spade king depends on the minor distribution -- just vacant spaces -- so it's between the squeeze and the spade finesse.

Maybe you've given the missing link behind Dave's complaint that "Nobody spotted a significant point on this hand. There is a line of play that gives an improvement with no downside."

Dave Flower

2016-08-25 07:44:49 UTC

Post by Steve Willner

Post by Lorne Anderson

Post by Dave Flower
3 2
A J 7 6 5 4 3
7 5 3
8
A Q
K 2
A K Q
A K Q J 10 7
2) How to you play the hand on the lead of DJ ?

2. Cash clubs and diamonds keeping one spade and AJx of hearts in dummy.
Cash K then A of hearts taking the spade finesse if the J is not good.

I'm sure Lorne would do better than this at the table.
1) if hearts are with East, there's a show-up squeeze, and the spade
finesse can't be winning. On a lucky day, the S-A will drop the K
(likely only if West misguidedly bared it).
2) if hearts are with West, you have a guess between the squeeze and
finesse. Usually you should be able to read the discards, but if not,
assume whoever started with more spades has the K. In a close case, you
might give some weight to West not having led a spade.
What I'm not sure of is, if East shows lots of minor-suit cards,
whether Charles' play of finessing H-J is better or worse than the combo
play of trying the drop, then a squeeze on West if the finesse would
have worked. The combo play is "sure tricks" if East has only two
major-suit cards, but I'm not sure about three or four.

Excellent point. I overlooked the squeeze and considered only heart finesse versus the combination of heart drop and spade finesse. But my heart finesse is *never* better than your squeeze. Whom to play for the spade king depends on the minor distribution -- just vacant spaces -- so it's between the squeeze and the spade finesse.
Maybe you've given the missing link behind Dave's complaint that "Nobody spotted a significant point on this hand. There is a line of play that gives an improvement with no downside."

The point that everyone missed is that declarer should start by cashing the three top diamonds. It makes no difference if the clubs break, but if the clubs should happen to be 6-0, there is every chance that the defender holding 9xxxxx
will discard one.

Dave Flower

jogs

2016-08-09 23:25:03 UTC

Didn't some top pro say never bid 7? My rule is only bid 7 when you can count 13 tricks during the auction. On this board I would be in 6NT.

Dave Flower

2016-08-10 09:41:17 UTC

Post by jogs

Didn't some top pro say never bid 7? My rule is only bid 7 when you can count 13 tricks during the auction. On this board I would be in 6NT.

Opposite Axxxxxx in hearts, 7NT is about 70%; better if hearts are stronger. Good enough for 7NT ?

Dave Flower

Will in New Haven

2016-08-28 22:08:10 UTC

Post by jogs

Didn't some top pro say never bid 7? My rule is only bid 7 when you can count 13 tricks during the auction. On this board I would be in 6NT.

P. Hal Sims did say never to bid seven. However, he said it when he and his team were so much better than anyone they played against that he thought they never needed to take that risk. Also, bidding methods were so primitive that there was almost no situation where one could count thirteen tricks.

--
Will now in Pompano Beach

richlp

2016-08-10 23:29:53 UTC

FWLIW.......

I want to play RKCB and this hand is a perfect example, especially if you change the majors. No way would I want to be in 7NT without knowing about the queen. (System question - with hearts as trump, after 5D how do you find out about the Queen? )

If I could choose a lead I can't imagine choosing anything other than a spade unless I'm playing double dummy.

As a play problem I don't know if its better to play for the heart to drop and leave the spade finesse in reserve, or to play spade ace and hope for hearts to come home or a major suit squeeze. Of course, I run my minors until I have to make a final decision. If there's a better third line, I'm not good enough to find it.

Lorne Anderson

2016-08-11 11:18:50 UTC

Post by richlp
As a play problem I don't know if its better to play for the heart to
drop and leave the spade finesse in reserve, or to play spade ace and
hope for hearts to come home or a major suit squeeze.

My logic was that both lines work if hearts are 2-2 so it only matters
if the hearts are 3-1 and in that case the spade is more likely to be
with the singleton so the squeeze must be worse than the 50% finesse.

Charles Brenner

2016-08-11 00:03:13 UTC

1) Given the S hand there is no advantage to RKCB. If partner has no ace they're equivalent, and when partner does show an ace even if we could learn the hQ is missing we'd still bid 7NT.

Is there an advantage to not playing RKCB? Can't be much but in principle it could be an edge that the defense has one fewer negative inference to draw from the bidding, e.g. no clue from our failure to ask for the trump Q.

2) Run the minors, hK, hx. Assume all follow small or there's no decision. Then hA, spade finesse except that if RHO manifested sufficient minor suit length -- least 8 cards -- I'd finesse the hQ.

3) I don't get it either. The explanation suggests that the choices include stipulating a lead out of turn then extracting a penalty for it, but even so Lorne's answer seems best.

John Hall

2016-08-11 09:16:44 UTC

Post by Dave Flower
3 2
A J 7 6 5 4 3
7 5 3
8
A Q
K 2
A K Q
A K Q J 10 7
Dealer N, E/W vul., pairs
N E S W
3H pass 4NT pass
5D pass 7NT all pass
Three questions for starters . . .
1) Would you prefer to be playing straight Blackwood or RKCB, and why ?
2) How to you play the hand on the lead of DJ ?
3) We will let you see dummy before making any decision. You are
allowed to select the opening lead; if it is out of turn, you have the
usual options: accept lead, penalty card, require lead of the suit,
forbid lead of the suit. What opening lead do you require, and what
option do you select if it is out of turn ?

<snip>

Post by Charles Brenner
3) I don't get it either. The explanation suggests that the choices
include stipulating a lead out of turn then extracting a penalty for
it, but even so Lorne's answer seems best.

I'm guessing that Dave's question is aimed at the possibility of an
opponent having all six missing clubs. So you specify that West should
lead a club to ensure six club tricks. If West can't comply, you know
that it's East who has all six clubs, and you specify that East should
lead a club. It seems that North having the eight of clubs ought to be
significant, and that I should specify that the club led should not be
the 9, but I can't see what use the extra entry to dummy would be to me.

However single dummy it seems much more sensible to demand a spade lead,
guaranteeing two spade tricks even if West has the King, and hope that
clubs break no worse than 5-1.

--
John Hall
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin"
attributed to Sir Josiah Stamp,
a former director of the Bank of England

s***@gmail.com

2016-08-11 19:29:28 UTC

RKCB makes this simple to bid. Once you discover the ace, lacking the queen, you can settle in 6H. Why 6H? partner may not have a side entry if the hearts do not run, and/or you guess wrong.

However I play a modification of GSF (Grand Slam Force), not needed here, which can add some information about extra length, and knowing that partner had Axxxxxxx could get you to 7. But here you need to first know that partner has either the Ace or the Queen to want to be in 6, much less 7.

Dave Flower

2016-08-12 10:00:05 UTC

Post by s***@gmail.com

RKCB makes this simple to bid. Once you discover the ace, lacking the queen, you can settle in 6H. Why 6H? partner may not have a side entry if the hearts do not run, and/or you guess wrong.
However I play a modification of GSF (Grand Slam Force), not needed here, which can add some information about extra length, and knowing that partner had Axxxxxxx could get you to 7. But here you need to first know that partner has either the Ace or the Queen to want to be in 6, much less 7.

6NT is almost cold. To fail, it requires:
1) 6-0 club break
2) Hearts not 2-2. (Assuming partner holds HAxxxxxx)
3) Spade finesse offside

So 6NT makes well over 99% of the time, whereas 6H has two natural trump losers nearly 10% of the time opposite HAxxxxxx

Dave Flower

Dave Flower

2016-08-13 08:49:16 UTC

In making this calculation, I assumed that dummy had a singleton club. In fact, if we assume that dummy has HAxxxxxx and rubbish, then 6NT makes about 99.77% of the time, whereas 6H fails when trumps break 4-0 (9.57%), and is by no means cold on a spade lead when trumps are 3-1

Dave Flower

Post by s***@gmail.com

RKCB makes this simple to bid. Once you discover the ace, lacking the queen, you can settle in 6H. Why 6H? partner may not have a side entry if the hearts do not run, and/or you guess wrong.
However I play a modification of GSF (Grand Slam Force), not needed here, which can add some information about extra length, and knowing that partner had Axxxxxxx could get you to 7. But here you need to first know that partner has either the Ace or the Queen to want to be in 6, much less 7.

1) 6-0 club break
2) Hearts not 2-2. (Assuming partner holds HAxxxxxx)
3) Spade finesse offside
So 6NT makes well over 99% of the time, whereas 6H has two natural trump losers nearly 10% of the time opposite HAxxxxxx
Dave Flower

s***@gmail.com

2016-08-11 19:33:28 UTC

Why would you want to be in 6NT? Even in matchpoints it is not a good contract. I guess you were desperate for a top.

Dave Flower

2016-08-14 09:03:51 UTC

Straight Blackwood because RKCB reveals the declarer holds HK, helping the defence.
Asking about the HQ is an irrelevancy, as 7NT is about 70% even missing the HQ.

Post by Dave Flower
2) How to you play the hand on the lead of DJ ?

Nobody spotted a significant point on this hand. There is a line of play that gives an improvement with no downside.

Post by Dave Flower
3) We will let you see dummy before making any decision. You are allowed to select the opening lead; if it is out of turn, you have the usual options: accept lead, penalty card, require lead of the suit, forbid lead of the suit. What opening lead do you require, and what option do you select if it is out of turn ?

I should have made it clear the this is a sure trick problem (Makes 100% of the time.

Finally, an additional problem:

4) Against what lies of the heart suit would you expect an expert to make 13 tricks against double-dummy defence ? (ie single-dummy declarer play)

Post by Dave Flower
David Flower

Charles Brenner

2016-08-14 16:16:58 UTC

Post by Dave Flower
3 2
A J 7 6 5 4 3
7 5 3
8
A Q
K 2
A K Q
A K Q J 10 7
Dealer N, E/W vul., pairs
N E S W
3H pass 4NT pass
5D pass 7NT all pass
Three questions for starters . . .
2) How to you play the hand on the lead of DJ ?

Nobody spotted a significant point on this hand. There is a line of play that gives an improvement with no downside.

It's often reasonable, when given a real-life play quiz, to skip over very unlikely possibilities like 6-0 breaks. But since this hand was stated to be concocted I should have appreciated that the clubs being non-solid was intentional and therefore perhaps a 6-0 break is part of the problem. Is that what you mean by "significant"?

I should have made it clear the this is a sure trick problem (Makes 100% of the time.

Still, the conditions are unclear. By "select the opening lead" do you mean among 8 choices consisting of any particular suit from either of the two opponents? Or is it allowed to ask more specifically, e.g. for "highest spade"?

Post by Dave Flower
4) Against what lies of the heart suit would you expect an expert to make 13 tricks against double-dummy defence ? (ie single-dummy declarer play)

Depending how the other cards lie, any lie of the heart suit is ok. No doubt I've failed to divine the intended question, but I think my answer is literally correct as the question is phrased.

Dave Flower

2016-08-15 08:06:31 UTC

Nobody spotted a significant point on this hand. There is a line of play that gives an improvement with no downside.

By significant, I mean that it should be specified in describinh how to play the hand.

I should have made it clear the this is a sure trick problem (Makes 100% of the time.

Specify the exact card.

Post by Dave Flower
4) Against what lies of the heart suit would you expect an expert to make 13 tricks against double-dummy defence ? (ie single-dummy declarer play)

Depending how the other cards lie, any lie of the heart suit is ok. No doubt I've failed to divine the intended question, but I think my answer is literally correct as the question is phrased.

Make 13 tricks however the cards (excluding the hearts\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\0
lie

Robert Chance

2016-08-15 11:59:35 UTC

Make 13 tricks however the cards lie

I'm not sure whether this is what you are getting at, but the hand is cold on the lead of the queen of hearts, even if hearts are 4-0 and clubs 6-0. You win in hand and cash one club. If West has the hearts and the clubs, you cash the winners in clubs, spades and diamonds, squeezing West on the final diamond. If West has four hearts and East has six clubs, you cash five clubs, three diamonds and cross over to the AJ of hearts. You end up with a non-simultaneous double squeeze, and the contract is guaranteed.

On any lead other than the queen of hearts, it is possible to construct layouts where the contract cannot be made (even double-dummy).

So if I am allowed to select a lead, I would like the HQ please.

Dave Flower

2016-08-15 13:27:15 UTC

Post by Robert Chance

Make 13 tricks however the cards lie

I'm not sure whether this is what you are getting at, but the hand is cold on the lead of the queen of hearts, even if hearts are 4-0 and clubs 6-0. You win in hand and cash one club. If West has the hearts and the clubs, you cash the winners in clubs, spades and diamonds, squeezing West on the final diamond. If West has four hearts and East has six clubs, you cash five clubs, three diamonds and cross over to the AJ of hearts. You end up with a non-simultaneous double squeeze, and the contract is guaranteed.
On any lead other than the queen of hearts, it is possible to construct layouts where the contract cannot be made (even double-dummy).
So if I am allowed to select a lead, I would like the HQ please.

Correct! And against an out of turn lead of HQ from RHO ?

Charles Brenner

2016-08-15 13:45:48 UTC

Post by Robert Chance

Make 13 tricks however the cards lie

I'm not sure whether this is what you are getting at, but the hand is cold on the lead of the queen of hearts, even if hearts are 4-0 and clubs 6-0. You win in hand and cash one club. If West has the hearts and the clubs, you cash the winners in clubs, spades and diamonds, squeezing West on the final diamond. If West has four hearts and East has six clubs, you cash five clubs, three diamonds and cross over to the AJ of hearts. You end up with a non-simultaneous double squeeze, and the contract is guaranteed.
On any lead other than the queen of hearts, it is possible to construct layouts where the contract cannot be made (even double-dummy).
So if I am allowed to select a lead, I would like the HQ please.

Correct! And against an out of turn lead of HQ from RHO ?

Penalty card. Then it will either go on trick 1, or on the clubs, or club-heart squeeze.

Charles Brenner

2016-08-15 13:47:11 UTC

Nobody spotted a significant point on this hand. There is a line of play that gives an improvement with no downside.

By significant, I mean that it should be specified in describinh how to play the hand.

I should have made it clear the this is a sure trick problem (Makes 100% of the time.

Specify the exact card.

Post by Dave Flower
4) Against what lies of the heart suit would you expect an expert to make 13 tricks against double-dummy defence ? (ie single-dummy declarer play)

Depending how the other cards lie, any lie of the heart suit is ok. No doubt I've failed to divine the intended question, but I think my answer is literally correct as the question is phrased.

Make 13 tricks however the cards (excluding the hearts\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\0
lie

Charles Brenner

2016-08-15 13:55:22 UTC

Post by Dave Flower
3 2
A J 7 6 5 4 3
7 5 3
8
A Q
K 2
A K Q
A K Q J 10 7
Dealer N, E/W vul., pairs
N E S W
3H pass 4NT pass
5D pass 7NT all pass

4) Against what lies of the heart suit would you expect an expert to make 13 tricks against double-dummy defence ? (ie single-dummy declarer play)

Depending how the other cards lie, any lie of the heart suit is ok. No doubt I've failed to divine the intended question, but I think my answer is literally correct as the question is phrased.

Make 13 tricks however the cards (excluding the hearts\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\0
lie

Obviously always make against singleton hQ, or doubleton onside. Also 4th onside per Robert's squeezes. Nothing else. If 3rd onside or doubleton offside as I asserted before the expert should guess right only a part of the time depending on what distributional information comes to light.

Dave Flower

2016-08-15 14:36:30 UTC

Post by Dave Flower
3 2
A J 7 6 5 4 3
7 5 3
8
A Q
K 2
A K Q
A K Q J 10 7
Dealer N, E/W vul., pairs
N E S W
3H pass 4NT pass
5D pass 7NT all pass

4) Against what lies of the heart suit would you expect an expert to make 13 tricks against double-dummy defence ? (ie single-dummy declarer play)

Depending how the other cards lie, any lie of the heart suit is ok. No doubt I've failed to divine the intended question, but I think my answer is literally correct as the question is phrased.

Make 13 tricks however the cards (excluding the hearts\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\0
lie

Spot on!
I would expect an expert to fail when RHO holds:
x
Qx
xxxxx
xxxxx
But if the spade singleton is the king, the hand should be made!

Dave Flower

Charles Brenner

2016-08-16 05:32:53 UTC