Discussion:
Second Call
(too old to reply)
Fred.
2017-07-26 20:53:04 UTC
Permalink
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold

A86432
J65
-
AK83

West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?


Fred.
Dave Flower
2017-07-26 21:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
2C; no second choice

Dave Flower
Fred.
2017-07-27 13:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83

West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
Fred.
2C; no second choice
Dave Flower
I thought that 2C was the only call since the hand was
obviously headed towards a part score and 2C left
2C, 2H and 2S as possibilities. However, the call in
the other room was 2S, so I thought I might check.

The auction continues:

West North East South
- - - 2C
(P) 3C (P) ?

Fred.
Will in New Haven
2017-07-27 22:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
Fred.
2C; no second choice
Dave Flower
I thought that 2C was the only call since the hand was
obviously headed towards a part score and 2C left
2C, 2H and 2S as possibilities. However, the call in
the other room was 2S, so I thought I might check.
West North East South
- - - 2C
(P) 3C (P) ?
Fred.
Well, this hand has potential opposite Club length and Spade shortness. As little as x - KQxx - ??x - xxxxx gives a play for game. I think I will probe with 3H.
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach
"Doc loved the cool, relentless logic of the cards. They had no pity or fear or doubt; they fell as they fell, and anyone who regretted or begged them or raged at them was a fool" from _Territory_ by Emma Bull, a novel greatly in need of a sequel
Fred.
2017-08-05 11:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Fred.
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
Fred.
2C; no second choice
Dave Flower
I thought that 2C was the only call since the hand was
obviously headed towards a part score and 2C left
2C, 2H and 2S as possibilities. However, the call in
the other room was 2S, so I thought I might check.
West North East South
- - - 2C
(P) 3C (P) ?
Fred.
Well, this hand has potential opposite Club length and Spade shortness. As little as x - KQxx - ??x - xxxxx gives a play for game. I think I will probe with 3H.
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach
"Doc loved the cool, relentless logic of the cards. They had no pity or fear or doubt; they fell as they fell, and anyone who regretted or begged them or raged at them was a fool" from _Territory_ by Emma Bull, a novel greatly in need of a sequel
The whole hand was

7
AK4
QT962
T742

KJ95 QT
T73 Q982
J7 54
J863 AKQ95

A86432
J65
-
AK83

West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) 2C
(P) 3C (P) 3D
(P) 3H (P) 3S
(P) 4H (P) 5C
All pass

3D was a general purpose force to 3NT or 4C.
3H was a stopper and forward going.
3S was an ace, but only highly invitational given
previous bidding
4H accepted the invitation and showed control for slam

North felt that 3D overstated South's hand, even given the
previous NF club bid and suggested your 3H. This is
probably superior even when giving South the heart Q in place
of the J. But in the latter case I suspect only 3D reaches
what I think is a good 22 HCP slam.

In any case, I think the hand clearly demonstrates the
superiority of 2C over the 2S bid in the other room.
Perhaps South should bid 2C even fearing North might
pass with 3 clubs and 2 spades.

Fred.
Charles Brenner
2017-08-05 15:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
Post by Fred.
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
Fred.
2C; no second choice
Dave Flower
I thought that 2C was the only call since the hand was
obviously headed towards a part score and 2C left
2C, 2H and 2S as possibilities. However, the call in
the other room was 2S, so I thought I might check.
West North East South
- - - 2C
(P) 3C (P) ?
...
Post by Fred.
The whole hand was
7
AK4
QT962
T742
KJ95 QT
T73 Q982
J7 54
J863 AKQ95
A86432
J65
-
AK83
That diagram is off. Maybe the minors were actually
7
AK4
QT962
T742

KJ95 QT
T73 Q982
J873 AK54
J6 Q95

A86432
J65
-
AK83
?
Post by Fred.
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) 2C
(P) 3C (P) 3D
(P) 3H (P) 3S
(P) 4H (P) 5C
All pass
3D was a general purpose force to 3NT or 4C.
3H was a stopper and forward going.
3S was an ace, but only highly invitational given
previous bidding
4H accepted the invitation and showed control for slam
North felt that 3D overstated South's hand, even given the
previous NF club bid and suggested your 3H. This is
probably superior even when giving South the heart Q in place
of the J. But in the latter case I suspect only 3D reaches
what I think is a good 22 HCP slam.
I'm mystified. Even 5C looks to require 3-3 spades and 3-2 trumps.

On the layout (that I assume above) if a diamond is led there are only 8 obvious tricks, but with a good guess (cash 2 trumps before the 2nd spade ruff) we can make 3C.

In the bidding, I see the temptation of bidding over 2C and even of bidding on over 3C, but there should be a way to stop low. The idea to interpret bids as slam tries after both partners have made marginal non-forcing bids is puzzling.
Fred.
2017-08-08 15:23:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Brenner
Post by Fred.
Post by Fred.
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Fred.
Fred.
2C; no second choice
Dave Flower
I thought that 2C was the only call since the hand was
obviously headed towards a part score and 2C left
2C, 2H and 2S as possibilities. However, the call in
the other room was 2S, so I thought I might check.
West North East South
- - - 2C
(P) 3C (P) ?
...
Post by Fred.
The whole hand was
7
AK4
QT962
T742
KJ95 QT
T73 Q982
J7 54
J863 AKQ95
A86432
J65
-
AK83
That diagram is off. Maybe the minors were actually
7
AK4
QT962
T742
KJ95 QT
T73 Q982
J873 AK54
J6 Q95
A86432
J65
-
AK83
?
Post by Fred.
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) 2C
(P) 3C (P) 3D
(P) 3H (P) 3S
(P) 4H (P) 5C
All pass
3D was a general purpose force to 3NT or 4C.
3H was a stopper and forward going.
3S was an ace, but only highly invitational given
previous bidding
4H accepted the invitation and showed control for slam
North felt that 3D overstated South's hand, even given the
previous NF club bid and suggested your 3H. This is
probably superior even when giving South the heart Q in place
of the J. But in the latter case I suspect only 3D reaches
what I think is a good 22 HCP slam.
I'm mystified. Even 5C looks to require 3-3 spades and 3-2 trumps.
On the layout (that I assume above) if a diamond is led there are only 8 obvious tricks, but with a good guess (cash 2 trumps before the 2nd spade ruff) we can make 3C.
In the bidding, I see the temptation of bidding over 2C and even of bidding on over 3C, but there should be a way to stop low. The idea to interpret bids as slam tries after both partners have made marginal non-forcing bids is puzzling.
Sorry. I can see how you may have been mystified. I forgot to
switch the minors back, and then life intervened. I think this
may be more comprehensible:

              7
              AK4
              T742
              QT962

KJ95                       QT
T73                        Q982
J863                       AKQ95
J7                         54

              A86432
              J65
              -
              AK83

I think 5C makes with distribution at least as even as
spades 4-2 and clubs 3-1. The lack of enterprise from
the opponents indicates fairly even distribution.

There weren't any slam tries until advancer bid 4H on
the way to 5C. I think this was reasonable given no
wasted values in diamonds, a huge heart holding, and
a hand which had been clearly limited in previous
bidding.

Fred.
Robert Chance
2017-08-17 18:47:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
Sorry. I can see how you may have been mystified. I forgot to
switch the minors back, and then life intervened. I think this
              7
              AK4
              T742
              QT962
KJ95                       QT
T73                        Q982
J863                       AKQ95
J7                         54
              A86432
              J65
              -
              AK83
I think 5C makes with distribution at least as even as
spades 4-2 and clubs 3-1.
There is an interesting defensive problem if East holds doubleton spade and Jxx of trumps. When declarer ruffs the third round of spades in dummy (which should be ruffed with the ten, to give East an opportunity to go wrong), East must avoid overruffing. Even if declarer now plays a club to the eight, the contract is now down. If East makes the mistake of overruffing the third (or fourth) round of spades, declarer retains trump control and makes the contract.
Fred.
2017-08-18 02:49:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Chance
Post by Fred.
Sorry. I can see how you may have been mystified. I forgot to
switch the minors back, and then life intervened. I think this
              7
              AK4
              T742
              QT962
KJ95                       QT
T73                        Q982
J863                       AKQ95
J7                         54
              A86432
              J65
              -
              AK83
I think 5C makes with distribution at least as even as
spades 4-2 and clubs 3-1.
There is an interesting defensive problem if East holds doubleton spade and Jxx of trumps. When declarer ruffs the third round of spades in dummy (which should be ruffed with the ten, to give East an opportunity to go wrong), East must avoid overruffing. Even if declarer now plays a club to the eight, the contract is now down. If East makes the mistake of overruffing the third (or fourth) round of spades, declarer retains trump control and makes the contract.
South's view of the hand was that if spades were established spades after drawing one round of trump the defense could be held to the two remaining
trump and nothing else. On a heart lead the play went something like:

W N E S
1 H3 HK* H2 H5
2 S5 S7 ST SA*
3 S9 C6* SQ S2
4 C7 C2 C4 CA*
5 SJ C9* D5 S3
6 H7 HA* H8 H6
7 D3 D2 DQ C3*
8 SK CQ* H9 S4
9 D6 D4 D9 C8*
a D8 H4 C5* S6
b DJ D7 DK CK*
c CJ* DT DA S8
d HT CT* HQ HJ

As you noted, if anyone ruffs in at any
point and returns a trump South now has
the trump control to establish (if need be) and
run spades.

But, I still may have missed something in the
analysis.

Fred.
Robert Chance
2017-08-18 12:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
Post by Robert Chance
Post by Fred.
Sorry. I can see how you may have been mystified. I forgot to
switch the minors back, and then life intervened. I think this
              7
              AK4
              T742
              QT962
KJ95                       QT
T73                        Q982
J863                       AKQ95
J7                         54
              A86432
              J65
              -
              AK83
I think 5C makes with distribution at least as even as
spades 4-2 and clubs 3-1.
There is an interesting defensive problem if East holds doubleton spade and Jxx of trumps. When declarer ruffs the third round of spades in dummy (which should be ruffed with the ten, to give East an opportunity to go wrong), East must avoid overruffing. Even if declarer now plays a club to the eight, the contract is now down. If East makes the mistake of overruffing the third (or fourth) round of spades, declarer retains trump control and makes the contract.
South's view of the hand was that if spades were established spades after drawing one round of trump the defense could be held to the two remaining
W N E S
1 H3 HK* H2 H5
2 S5 S7 ST SA*
3 S9 C6* SQ S2
4 C7 C2 C4 CA*
5 SJ C9* D5 S3
6 H7 HA* H8 H6
7 D3 D2 DQ C3*
8 SK CQ* H9 S4
9 D6 D4 D9 C8*
a D8 H4 C5* S6
b DJ D7 DK CK*
c CJ* DT DA S8
d HT CT* HQ HJ
As you noted, if anyone ruffs in at any
point and returns a trump South now has
the trump control to establish (if need be) and
run spades.
But, I still may have missed something in the
analysis.
Fred.
Your analysis is quite correct on a heart lead. I had assumed a diamond lead, which shortens declarer's trumps before you can get started on setting the spades up. On a diamond lead you can, I think, usually be defeated if trumps are 3-1 and spades are 4-2.
Fred.
2017-08-23 13:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Chance
Post by Fred.
Post by Robert Chance
Post by Fred.
Sorry. I can see how you may have been mystified. I forgot to
switch the minors back, and then life intervened. I think this
              7
              AK4
              T742
              QT962
KJ95                       QT
T73                        Q982
J863                       AKQ95
J7                         54
              A86432
              J65
              -
              AK83
I think 5C makes with distribution at least as even as
spades 4-2 and clubs 3-1.
There is an interesting defensive problem if East holds doubleton spade and Jxx of trumps. When declarer ruffs the third round of spades in dummy (which should be ruffed with the ten, to give East an opportunity to go wrong), East must avoid overruffing. Even if declarer now plays a club to the eight, the contract is now down. If East makes the mistake of overruffing the third (or fourth) round of spades, declarer retains trump control and makes the contract.
South's view of the hand was that if spades were established spades after drawing one round of trump the defense could be held to the two remaining
W N E S
1 H3 HK* H2 H5
2 S5 S7 ST SA*
3 S9 C6* SQ S2
4 C7 C2 C4 CA*
5 SJ C9* D5 S3
6 H7 HA* H8 H6
7 D3 D2 DQ C3*
8 SK CQ* H9 S4
9 D6 D4 D9 C8*
a D8 H4 C5* S6
b DJ D7 DK CK*
c CJ* DT DA S8
d HT CT* HQ HJ
As you noted, if anyone ruffs in at any
point and returns a trump South now has
the trump control to establish (if need be) and
run spades.
But, I still may have missed something in the
analysis.
Fred.
Your analysis is quite correct on a heart lead. I had assumed a diamond lead, which shortens declarer's trumps before you can get started on setting the spades up. On a diamond lead you can, I think, usually be defeated if trumps are 3-1 and spades are 4-2.
I remember believing that a diamond lead was a bye as long as
East held 2 or more spades, but I can't remember what convinced me.

However, on a diamond lead it seems natural to roll with the punch
and ruff four diamonds, taking advantage of the fact that West has
saved South a board entry. After the 4th diamond ruff South ruffs
a 3rd spade in dummy with the C6. This makes the contract, losing
the CJ and a heart whenever East has at least 2 spades and either
West has the C7 or East has a 3rd spade.

Perhaps I confused the C6 with the C7 the first time.

It is interesting to hold 9 trump while needing to surrender a
trump trick to retain control of the hand and having the trump
7 a key card.

Fred.

Lorne
2017-07-26 21:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
2C.

I expect about 9-11 points for 1N so game is not on without a spade fit
and I want to play in 2C or 2S unless partner now bids hearts.
Player
2017-07-27 00:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
2C if playing with a Bridge player and not a beginner who will correct to 2S with xx xxx in the blacks.
Douglas Newlands
2017-07-27 23:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Player
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
2C if playing with a Bridge player and not a beginner who will correct to 2S with xx xxx in the blacks.
Did you miss out a "not" here?

doug
Player
2017-07-28 03:21:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Newlands
Post by Player
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
2C if playing with a Bridge player and not a beginner who will correct to 2S with xx xxx in the blacks.
Did you miss out a "not" here?
doug
Yes Dr. Doug, I did miss a "not". By the way, it is Dr. Ron as off last week.
Douglas Newlands
2017-07-28 04:17:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Player
Post by Douglas Newlands
Post by Player
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
2C if playing with a Bridge player and not a beginner who will correct to 2S with xx xxx in the blacks.
Did you miss out a "not" here?
doug
Yes Dr. Doug, I did miss a "not". By the way, it is Dr. Ron as off last week.
Well done, Dr Ron!

doug
Will in New Haven
2017-07-27 02:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
2C, wTP?
--
Will in New Haven, now in Pompano Beach
Dave Flower
2017-07-28 11:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
An interesting question is what 2D over 2C would mean. I vote it's to play, and would pass.

Dave Flower
p***@infi.net
2017-07-28 17:43:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred.
IMP Scoring, Neither Vulnerable, Dealer West.
You, South, hold
A86432
J65
-
AK83
West North East South
(P) Pass (1D) 1S
(P) 1NT (P) ?
Fred.
2 clubs for me. 2 spades would imply similar strength (weaker hands could start with a weak jump overcall) but I have no desire to emphasize the spades relative to clubs.
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...