J642.KJT987.4.A7

[Fred.]

Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.

You, South, hold

J642
KJT987
4
A7

West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?

Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.

3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?

Fred.

[Co Wiersma]

Post by Fred.
Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.
You, South, hold
J642
KJT987
4
A7
West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?
Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.
3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?
Fred.

I bid 4C as partners singleton seems to work nice with my hand and the
extra trump makes it quite possible that tricks can be developed in the
minors

Co Wiersma

[Dave Flower]

Post by Fred.
Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.
You, South, hold
J642
KJT987
4
A7
West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?
Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.
3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?
Fred.

4H for me.
I am sub-minimum for my bid, and the defence are likely to get off to a club lead.
Dave Flower

[t***@att.net]

4D and over 4D I'd bid 4H then over 4S I'd shoot 6H.
.... over 4H I'd Pass.
.... over 4S I'd bid 5D (second round) and the Pass 5H or bid 6H if Partner doesn't.
.... 4NT I bid 6H showing nothing special.

[KWSchneider]

4C gives opener a chance to bid 4D, after which I keycard (and assume it excludes spades).

If partner directly bids 4H, I pass.

Kurt

[KWSchneider]

4C - if partner bids 4D, I will bid 4N (exclusion KCB)
If partner instead bids 4H, I pass.

Kurt

[Dave Flower]

Post by KWSchneider
4C - if partner bids 4D, I will bid 4N (exclusion KCB)
If partner instead bids 4H, I pass.
Kurt

Surely 4H over 4D - you have already overbid your hand

Dave Flower

[p***@infi.net]

Post by Fred.
Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.
You, South, hold
J642
KJT987
4
A7
West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?
Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.
3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?
Fred.

I'd like to bid 3NT as a courtesy (non-serious slam try.) Why do we need 3NT natural after a splinter? Slam would be cold opposite x AQxx Axxxx KQx or similar, but does require extras. Your methods require one of us to guess. Forced to guess, I suppose I'd better bid 4H. Ugh.

[Fred.]

Post by p***@infi.net

Post by Fred.
Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.
You, South, hold
J642
KJT987
4
A7
West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?
Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.
3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?
Fred.

I'd like to bid 3NT as a courtesy (non-serious slam try.) Why do we need 3NT natural after a splinter? Slam would be cold opposite x AQxx Axxxx KQx or similar, but does require extras. Your methods require one of us to guess. Forced to guess, I suppose I'd better bid 4H. Ugh.

This hand inclines me to agree with you on 3NT. 3NT was natural
because it was undiscussed.

Fred.

[Dave Flower]

Post by Fred.
Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.
You, South, hold
J642
KJT987
4
A7
West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?
Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.
3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?
Fred.

With my regular partner, a cue bid below the level of game after a slam invitation is mandatory, and therefore does not promise extra values. This seems to make more sense than a 4C bid promising extra values

Dave Flower

[Player]

4H. I have a lot of spades to dispose of. I quite like 4c but a trump lead will not do well for me.

[Steve Willner]

Post by Dave Flower
With my regular partner, a cue bid below the level of game after a
slam invitation is mandatory, and therefore does not promise extra
values. This seems to make more sense than a 4C bid promising extra
values

I prefer a compromise: control bid doesn't promise distinct extras but
isn't mandatory if overall I hate my hand for slam. With that
agreement, 4C is easy. If the agreement is that 4C would promise real
extra values, then I don't think the hand is strong enough.

With the actual hand, opener should at least consider bidding 5H over
responder's 4H "no extras" bid.

I agree there's a good case for 3NT as artificial here, but that's for
discussion after the session.

[Player]

Post by Steve Willner

Post by Dave Flower
With my regular partner, a cue bid below the level of game after a
slam invitation is mandatory, and therefore does not promise extra
values. This seems to make more sense than a 4C bid promising extra
values

I prefer a compromise: control bid doesn't promise distinct extras but
isn't mandatory if overall I hate my hand for slam. With that
agreement, 4C is easy. If the agreement is that 4C would promise real
extra values, then I don't think the hand is strong enough.
With the actual hand, opener should at least consider bidding 5H over
responder's 4H "no extras" bid.
I agree there's a good case for 3NT as artificial here, but that's for
discussion after the session.

I agree that 3NT as Serious or Frivolous, whichever you play, would be a good agreement to have.

[Ronald]

Post by Steve Willner

Post by Dave Flower
With my regular partner, a cue bid below the level of game after a
slam invitation is mandatory, and therefore does not promise extra
values. This seems to make more sense than a 4C bid promising extra
values

I prefer a compromise: control bid doesn't promise distinct extras but
isn't mandatory if overall I hate my hand for slam. With that
agreement, 4C is easy. If the agreement is that 4C would promise real
extra values, then I don't think the hand is strong enough.
With the actual hand, opener should at least consider bidding 5H over
responder's 4H "no extras" bid.
I agree there's a good case for 3NT as artificial here, but that's for
discussion after the session.

Unless you have already discussed before the session. We have a simple
rule: 3N is non-serious if we have a fit in a major unless it is a jump. I
agree that there are situations where natural is better, but I prefer
simplicity.

[Lorne Anderson]

Post by Fred.
Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.
You, South, hold
J642
KJT987
4
A7
West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?
Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.
3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?
Fred.

4C now and 4H over partners likely 4D - shows a minimum 2H bid with the
club ace. I would only sign off in 4H immediately with a minimum and no
club ace and no diamond A/K.

[Fred.]

Post by Fred.
Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.
You, South, hold
J642
KJT987
4
A7
West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?
Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.
3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?
Fred.

I don't think 2H with the reliable heart suit was an
overbid. The hand is a clear opening bid playing a
light style and is almost a sound opening with 12.00
CCCC, failing because of only 1.5 QT.

On the theory that aggressive slam bidding tends to
pay off at match points, I treated the 6th card in
the supported suit as extras and bid 4C. As it
turned out partner held huge support and carried
to 6H with

9
AQ52
AKJT62
J4

I think this hand makes the case for playing 3NT
over the 3S splinter as one of serious or non-
serious when the suit is a major.

Fred.

PS: Per Dave Flower's (and my) expectations we
got a club lead.

Fred.

[Robert Chance]

Post by Fred.
PS: Per Dave Flower's (and my) expectations we
got a club lead.

Looking at just your hand, my first reaction was that a club lead was what I wanted - it's a trump lead that could hurt the contract.

And that's the case on the actual hand - 6H is cold on normal breaks on a club lead, but you still have work to do if a trump is led.

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by Fred.
Match points, dealer West, NS Vulnerable
sound openings, 11,12-14 NT.
You, South, hold
J642
KJT987
4
A7
West North East South
(P) 1D (2C) 2H
(P) 3S* (P) ?
Your 2H promised 5+ hearts, 11+ total
points and was a one round force. North's
3S is a splinter promising 3+ trump and a
spade singleton or void, but not necessarily
more than needed for game.
3NT from you would be natural, a cue bid
would promise extra, while 4H would be an
attempt to sign off. Your call?
Fred.

4C. With partner's splinter, that weak spade suit qualifies as an extra.