Cheating Methods

[Hank Youngerman]

I only have knowledge of a few games, but I thought it might interest
people how some other games are cheated at online.

In any game with ratings, you can obviously create two accounts and
dump to yourself. I've seen players on the MSN Zone with win steaks
of 400 games. Unless your name is Kasparov or Tinsley, that ain't
happening for real.

In backgammon, some players intentionally LOSE in order to deflate
their ratings, and get money games they might not otherwise get.

In both backgammon and chess, there are strong computer programs that
can be consulted. I'm told that in chess, the computers play
differently that humans. I have never actually seen someone develop
an interface by which a 'bot could choose your plays automatically,
but I'm sure it's possible. Chess actually now has live tournaments
in which computer assistance is allowed!

In poker, of course you can message your hand to a confederate.
Sometimes you are almost sure you have a winning hand (in hold'em) and
would want to have another player bid the hand up to suck more money
in; other times you can't be sure and don't both want to be bidding
up. If you have a straight and someone else MIGHT have a flush,
there's no point in your confederate staying in on 3 of a kind - he's
not going to win the pot.

Can the dice or cards be hacked? I've never known of a confirmed case
of it happening, at least not in backgammon. In poker, one site
published it's random-number generator algorithm to get people to have
confidence in the randomness of the cards, but one player managed to
reverse-engineer the algorithm. From the seen cards he could
determine the unseen cards, and he made a bundle before he got caught.
I think they somehow made him give the money back.

There's a startling amount of money that changes hands in online games
that are not secure. Backgammon is played for as much as $1000-$2000
a point, and while those stakes are rare, $100 a point is not that
uncommon. I'm told that much more is wagered on gin, and poker I
can't even imagine.

[Julian Lighton]

Post by Hank Youngerman
I only have knowledge of a few games, but I thought it might interest
people how some other games are cheated at online.

Most of what I know is about computer games, rather than on-line
versions of conventional games.

Post by Hank Youngerman
In both backgammon and chess, there are strong computer programs that
can be consulted. I'm told that in chess, the computers play
differently that humans.

This is likely. People don't play chess the same way computers do.

Post by Hank Youngerman
I have never actually seen someone develop
an interface by which a 'bot could choose your plays automatically,
but I'm sure it's possible.

It's been done in several computer games, which is far more difficult.
(More data to process, has to run in real-time.) It'd just have to
feed moves back and forth between the on-line game and a chess
program. The hard part would be reading chess moves off the screen.

Post by Hank Youngerman
Can the dice or cards be hacked? I've never known of a confirmed case
of it happening, at least not in backgammon.

If all the action is happening on the server, it wouldn't be easy to
do without being detected. (Though hardly impossible.)

If the client generates its own die rolls, it would be easy.

Post by Hank Youngerman
In poker, one site
published it's random-number generator algorithm to get people to have
confidence in the randomness of the cards, but one player managed to
reverse-engineer the algorithm. From the seen cards he could
determine the unseen cards, and he made a bundle before he got caught.
I think they somehow made him give the money back.

In theory, posting the algortihm is fine. Odds are, the algorithm
sucked, or they were misusing it, probably by re-seeding for every
hand. It shouldn't be possible to determine a halfway-decent PRNG's
state from the available data.

There are cryptographically strong PRNGs available IIRC.

[Chris Vinall]

Post by Hank Youngerman
In poker, of course you can message your hand to a confederate.
Sometimes you are almost sure you have a winning hand (in hold'em) and
would want to have another player bid the hand up to suck more money
in; other times you can't be sure and don't both want to be bidding
up. If you have a straight and someone else MIGHT have a flush,
there's no point in your confederate staying in on 3 of a kind - he's
not going to win the pot.

So goes the story you hear online. In fact, cheating at holdem is very
difficult and not very rewarding. As an example, suppose you have the KdKc
and your confederate has a junk hand, on the board Qh6h2c. You gleefully
raise and reraise with a player trapped in between. Unfortunately it turns
out this player has the Ah5h and you are LOSING MONEY when you do this
raising. Also if he holds the 6c6s you are losing a giant amount of money.
Having a confederate in the hand exposes you to twice the loss when you
lose. The other problem is that you are almost never in hands with each
other anyway, because being able to collude isn't a big enough gain to
warrant playing bad hands.

Post by Hank Youngerman
Can the dice or cards be hacked? I've never known of a confirmed case
of it happening, at least not in backgammon. In poker, one site
published it's random-number generator algorithm to get people to have
confidence in the randomness of the cards, but one player managed to
reverse-engineer the algorithm. From the seen cards he could
determine the unseen cards, and he made a bundle before he got caught.
I think they somehow made him give the money back.

This was some years ago and the algorithm being used was apparently a
development one that was not supposed to be in the final product. It was an
incredibly bad and insecure algorithm. It was cracked by a software security
firm and they didn't use it to make a dime - they just published their
exploits to get recognition.

More recently, a (now defunct I think) poker site was hacked by a Russian
team, who gained access to the inner workings of the server and cheated for
a while before being caught. Any of the major sites are now secure.

Chris

[John Uchida]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:21:00 +0930, "Chris Vinall"

Post by Chris Vinall

Post by Hank Youngerman
In poker, of course you can message your hand to a confederate.
Sometimes you are almost sure you have a winning hand (in hold'em) and
would want to have another player bid the hand up to suck more money
in; other times you can't be sure and don't both want to be bidding
up. If you have a straight and someone else MIGHT have a flush,
there's no point in your confederate staying in on 3 of a kind - he's
not going to win the pot.

So goes the story you hear online. In fact, cheating at holdem is very
difficult and not very rewarding.

Are you kidding? Cheating online is 100 times easier than cheating in
live games (of course, if the administrators are on their toes, it's
also much easier to prove). And the difference between winning big
and breaking even might only be a couple of big bets an hour. It
doesn't take much to tip the scales.

Post by Chris Vinall
As an example, suppose you have the KdKc
and your confederate has a junk hand, on the board Qh6h2c. You gleefully
raise and reraise with a player trapped in between. Unfortunately it turns
out this player has the Ah5h and you are LOSING MONEY when you do this
raising.

Not when you are raising when a flush doesn't come on 4th street. And
it's not the occasional extra bets you get by extra raises. It's the
hands you win without a fight because the opponent folds a possible
winning hand because they can't stand the heat that really add up.

Post by Chris Vinall
Also if he holds the 6c6s you are losing a giant amount of money.

If you can't figure out your opponent has trips, you might want to
step down in class a couple of levels.

Post by Chris Vinall
Having a confederate in the hand exposes you to twice the loss when you
lose.

But they would only be in for the flop so would only lose their
pre-flop bets, and both would play on only when both had a good chance
to win, or when 1 player had an odds on hand.

Post by Chris Vinall
The other problem is that you are almost never in hands with each
other anyway, because being able to collude isn't a big enough gain to
warrant playing bad hands.

If you knew your partner probably had the best or one of the best pre
flop hands, you should play much looser. This kind of cheating would
be too obvious in a tight game, so the game is probably a pretty loose
game. If half the players are taking a flop on average, you would
expect 2 partners to be in the same hand about 1/4. That seems like
a lot of potential hands to me.

Post by Chris Vinall

Post by Hank Youngerman
Can the dice or cards be hacked? I've never known of a confirmed case
of it happening, at least not in backgammon. In poker, one site
published it's random-number generator algorithm to get people to have
confidence in the randomness of the cards, but one player managed to
reverse-engineer the algorithm. From the seen cards he could
determine the unseen cards, and he made a bundle before he got caught.
I think they somehow made him give the money back.

This was some years ago and the algorithm being used was apparently a
development one that was not supposed to be in the final product. It was an
incredibly bad and insecure algorithm. It was cracked by a software security
firm and they didn't use it to make a dime - they just published their
exploits to get recognition.
More recently, a (now defunct I think) poker site was hacked by a Russian
team, who gained access to the inner workings of the server and cheated for
a while before being caught. Any of the major sites are now secure.
Chris

[Peter Laursen]

Post by Hank Youngerman
There's a startling amount of money that changes hands in online games
that are not secure. Backgammon is played for as much as

$1000-$2000

Post by Hank Youngerman
a point, and while those stakes are rare, $100 a point is not that
uncommon. I'm told that much more is wagered on gin, and poker I
can't even imagine.

see www.pokerpulse.com for realtime statistics for online poker.
Partypoker has an estimated $22,795,550 24-hr Ring Game Pots

Peter

[votter]

Let's talk about bridge. Funny but cheating is not only for money. Funnier
that cheating is not only for rating. Seemingly, cheating is simply part of
the human nature, at least in the game of bridge.

It is easy to cheat in bridge. To inform partner the given hand is as easy
as a telephone connection. Detectable only by repeated X-ray vision of both
partners, that could be otherwise attributed to a good player's good day,
but rarely to both partners. In BBO these partners usually use empty user
profiles to remain in the dark.

There are endless possibilities to cheat in bridge. For example after
consulted its own hand jump to partners place when he/she leaves. Easy to
detect, but impertinent people do not restrict themselves doing it.
Depending on the on-line site, cheating is more frequent where there is
rating involved . Especially in North America, where ACBL's masterpoint
system successfully rot the spirit of the game. It is now common place that
participants not respond to greetings in order to make the polite guy
frustrated. And that nasty attitude progressed from local bridge clubs to
on-line bridge. Who cheats in a club will cheat more with computer.

Rating is a funny subject, too. Pay or not BBO has far the best on-line
bridge. One part of its immense success is that there is no official
rating. But there is a self qualification possibility in the player's
displayed pop-up profile. Just look the game of the self appointed
"experts". My estimation is that 90 more % of them are very bad players, far
from any real category. It is laughable and shows homo sapiens in real.
Imagine what they would willing to commit for money!

Other sites, like Swan has its own funny rating. Their method is
manipulating and diluting the requirements so after a while everybody will
be "Swan Master". Surely, their membership pays for this ridiculous
rankings.

Where lots of people are congregating there will be cheaters. What can one
do? Leave the cheaters alone including the false experts, too. Comments can
backfire. Those who police an on-line site are more sensitive if one calls a
spade a spade, than look deep into irregularities. But that last action can
not be expected, simply because of the number of those instances.

I am sure others have much more experience in this subject. Myself, I regard
its appearances as annoying as a fly and sweep it away.

Post by Hank Youngerman
I only have knowledge of a few games, but I thought it might interest
people how some other games are cheated at online.
In any game with ratings, you can obviously create two accounts and
dump to yourself. I've seen players on the MSN Zone with win steaks
of 400 games. Unless your name is Kasparov or Tinsley, that ain't
happening for real.
In backgammon, some players intentionally LOSE in order to deflate
their ratings, and get money games they might not otherwise get.
In both backgammon and chess, there are strong computer programs that
can be consulted. I'm told that in chess, the computers play
differently that humans. I have never actually seen someone develop
an interface by which a 'bot could choose your plays automatically,
but I'm sure it's possible. Chess actually now has live tournaments
in which computer assistance is allowed!
In poker, of course you can message your hand to a confederate.
Sometimes you are almost sure you have a winning hand (in hold'em) and
would want to have another player bid the hand up to suck more money
in; other times you can't be sure and don't both want to be bidding
up. If you have a straight and someone else MIGHT have a flush,
there's no point in your confederate staying in on 3 of a kind - he's
not going to win the pot.
Can the dice or cards be hacked? I've never known of a confirmed case
of it happening, at least not in backgammon. In poker, one site
published it's random-number generator algorithm to get people to have
confidence in the randomness of the cards, but one player managed to
reverse-engineer the algorithm. From the seen cards he could
determine the unseen cards, and he made a bundle before he got caught.
I think they somehow made him give the money back.
There's a startling amount of money that changes hands in online games
that are not secure. Backgammon is played for as much as $1000-$2000
a point, and while those stakes are rare, $100 a point is not that
uncommon. I'm told that much more is wagered on gin, and poker I
can't even imagine.