Discussion:
Your bid?
(too old to reply)
Kenny McCormack
2021-01-01 22:08:51 UTC
Permalink
IMPS (team of 4), none vul you deal and hold: xx,Kxxx,ATx,AKJx

Playing SAYC, you open 1N (15-17).
The auction goes:

1N 2H (xfer)
2S 3C
?

1) Your call?

2) Is it any different if this were MPs (say, a standard club game or tourn
event) ?
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Peter Smulders
2021-01-03 22:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny McCormack
IMPS (team of 4), none vul you deal and hold: xx,Kxxx,ATx,AKJx
Playing SAYC, you open 1N (15-17).
1N 2H (xfer)
2S 3C
?
1) Your call?
2) Is it any different if this were MPs (say, a standard club game or tourn
event) ?
assuming 3C = 5+ hearts, 4+ clubs and game-forcing: 1) and 2) 3NT
Joanna Shuttleworth
2021-01-04 15:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny McCormack
IMPS (team of 4), none vul you deal and hold: xx,Kxxx,ATx,AKJx
Playing SAYC, you open 1N (15-17).
1N 2H (xfer)
2S 3C
?
1) Your call?
2) Is it any different if this were MPs (say, a standard club game or tourn
event) ?
3D : control and club fit
5C may be better than 3NT; and partner may be interested in slam.

same for MPs: partner has a reason to bid 3C, so let him know how you feel.
Kenny McCormack
2021-01-04 15:50:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joanna Shuttleworth
Post by Kenny McCormack
IMPS (team of 4), none vul you deal and hold: xx,Kxxx,ATx,AKJx
Playing SAYC, you open 1N (15-17).
1N 2H (xfer)
2S 3C
?
1) Your call?
2) Is it any different if this were MPs (say, a standard club game or tourn
event) ?
3D : control and club fit
5C may be better than 3NT; and partner may be interested in slam.
Yeah, that's kinda the gist of this thread. At IMPs, you have to assume
that it is OK to play in clubs. Either game or slam could easily be there.

Yes, 3D is a good bid. Thanks for that.
Post by Joanna Shuttleworth
same for MPs: partner has a reason to bid 3C, so let him know how you feel.
3D is still reasonable (since you can still end in 3N). But I suspect
you'll end up in 3N regardless. I have a solid rule at MPs that we never
play 5 of a minor. So, its either going to be 3N or 6C.

Spoiler: In the event, 3N is down (pard has a stiff diamond and you don't
have 9 on top) and 6C is a probable make. Such is life...
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KWSchneider
2021-01-04 16:27:51 UTC
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Post by Kenny McCormack
IMPS (team of 4), none vul you deal and hold: xx,Kxxx,ATx,AKJx
Playing SAYC, you open 1N (15-17).
1N 2H (xfer)
2S 3C
?
1) Your call?
While I would subscribe to bidding 3D to show a diamond control, it is NOT clear that this is in support of clubs and NOT spades.
Unless you are using super-accepts of some sort, how would one bid this hand?
KJxx,Kxxx,ATx,Ax

So 3D does not automatically set clubs as trump.
Post by Kenny McCormack
2) Is it any different if this were MPs (say, a standard club game or tournament)
4C in IMPS
3N in MP (the room bid)
Joanna Shuttleworth
2021-01-05 13:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by KWSchneider
Post by Kenny McCormack
IMPS (team of 4), none vul you deal and hold: xx,Kxxx,ATx,AKJx
Playing SAYC, you open 1N (15-17).
1N 2H (xfer)
2S 3C
?
1) Your call?
While I would subscribe to bidding 3D to show a diamond control, it is NOT clear that this is in support of clubs and NOT spades.
Unless you are using super-accepts of some sort, how would one bid this hand?
KJxx,Kxxx,ATx,Ax
So 3D does not automatically set clubs as trump.
it should do as we're FG. 3S sets spades as trump and allows partner to
try for slam below game if he is interested.
Post by KWSchneider
Post by Kenny McCormack
2) Is it any different if this were MPs (say, a standard club game or tournament)
4C in IMPS
3N in MP (the room bid)
Fred.
2021-01-06 18:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joanna Shuttleworth
Post by KWSchneider
Post by Kenny McCormack
IMPS (team of 4), none vul you deal and hold: xx,Kxxx,ATx,AKJx
Playing SAYC, you open 1N (15-17).
1N 2H (xfer)
2S 3C
?
1) Your call?
While I would subscribe to bidding 3D to show a diamond control, it is NOT clear that this is in support of clubs and NOT spades.
Unless you are using super-accepts of some sort, how would one bid this hand?
KJxx,Kxxx,ATx,Ax
So 3D does not automatically set clubs as trump.
it should do as we're FG. 3S sets spades as trump and allows partner to
try for slam below game if he is interested.
Post by KWSchneider
Post by Kenny McCormack
2) Is it any different if this were MPs (say, a standard club game or tournament)
4C in IMPS
3N in MP (the room bid)
While I agree with you, I'm not sure if my pickup partner will. However,
if 3D is ambiguous, responder should still proceed as if clubs were
supported and leave it to opener to make any necessary corrections
to spades.

Fred.
KWSchneider
2021-01-07 14:49:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 1:48:06 PM UTC-5, Fred. wrote:
Cropped
While I agree with you, I'm not sure if my pickup partner will. However,
if 3D is ambiguous, responder should still proceed as if clubs were
supported and leave it to opener to make any necessary corrections
to spades.
Fred.
So - we have the following implications:
1N-2H;
2S-3C;
3D
is slam invitational with a diamond control in support of clubs.

1N-2H;
2S-3C;
3S - support for spades, opener has NOT denied a diamond control, but has denied support for clubs - nebulous with respect to slam interest. Allowing for 3N, 4S or slam
4S - to play, no slam interest

1N-2H;
2S-3C;
4C
is slam invitational DENYING a diamond control in support of clubs.

Cue-bidding without absolutely defining the trump suit is dangerous. Must opener bypass a 3D cuebid to raise spades first, implying that a direct cuebid is for clubs.
kingfish
2021-01-11 15:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny McCormack
IMPS (team of 4), none vul you deal and hold: xx,Kxxx,ATx,AKJx
Playing SAYC, you open 1N (15-17).
1N 2H (xfer)
2S 3C
?
1) Your call?
2) Is it any different if this were MPs (say, a standard club game or tourn
event) ?
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First principal, clarify what is trump. With Clubs as trump your hand is all first and 2nd round controls, and you have solid club support for what is know to be a weak suit. The issue with 3D is that even with a 4C call over 3NT, partner still is not sure which suit you are supporting. If you call 4C, it is clear what suit you support, and, unless partner can call 4H over that, slam is unlikely.
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