Discussion:
#SayNoToTheirCheats
(too old to reply)
Jonathan Ferguson
2018-09-25 20:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Recently a young woman on BridgeWinners decided that it was time to #saynotocheats but it's been pointed out to her that there are personable and well-regarded American pros who have exhibited unsavory behavior and been pardoned by the 'cool kids'. So we obviously can't say no to ALL cheats, right?

Suddenly it hit me. We can #SayNoToTHEIRCheats! It would be far too triggering and upsetting to say no to OUR cheats, but THEIR cheats? Their cheats are the WORST cheats!!!!

So please join me and #SayNoToTheirCheats

Original thread: https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/saynotocheats-2-hbiamlwd0r/

Discussion of why the idea is untenable, Elliot Shalita making a strong case: bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=708928

A stunning admission by American pro Justin Lall:

"Most bridge players have *always* been dishonest. And yeah you can say its because of money or titles or whatever, shocker they are more dishonest at the lower levels (perhaps unknowningly). The social ramifications of being dishonest at the higher levels are higher.

But yeah keep your heads in the sand. Worship the blue team, worship fantoni and nunes, etc. And after that know that your favorite players are just smart enough to get away with what they can. The game is and always has been a farce and it's really sad for people who just love the game. But the current (and past) models are unsustainable if you want a fair game. And no matter what, it will always be an unfair game. If I were to ever win the lottery, I would never play bridge again. The game is a joke and I play only for economic reasons at this point, and I hope to find an alternative to that but sadly its probably too late."

https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=705926

And a remarkably brazen, fairly recent example, captured on video:



Remember, #SayNoToTheirCheats!
rhm
2018-10-12 15:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Ferguson
Recently a young woman on BridgeWinners decided that it was time to #saynotocheats but it's been pointed out to her that there are personable and well-regarded American pros who have exhibited unsavory behavior and been pardoned by the 'cool kids'. So we obviously can't say no to ALL cheats, right?
Suddenly it hit me. We can #SayNoToTHEIRCheats! It would be far too triggering and upsetting to say no to OUR cheats, but THEIR cheats? Their cheats are the WORST cheats!!!!
So please join me and #SayNoToTheirCheats
Original thread: https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/saynotocheats-2-hbiamlwd0r/
Discussion of why the idea is untenable, Elliot Shalita making a strong case: bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=708928
"Most bridge players have *always* been dishonest. And yeah you can say its because of money or titles or whatever, shocker they are more dishonest at the lower levels (perhaps unknowningly). The social ramifications of being dishonest at the higher levels are higher.
But yeah keep your heads in the sand. Worship the blue team, worship fantoni and nunes, etc. And after that know that your favorite players are just smart enough to get away with what they can. The game is and always has been a farce and it's really sad for people who just love the game. But the current (and past) models are unsustainable if you want a fair game. And no matter what, it will always be an unfair game. If I were to ever win the lottery, I would never play bridge again. The game is a joke and I play only for economic reasons at this point, and I hope to find an alternative to that but sadly its probably too late."
https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=705926
http://youtu.be/F0bCI2RKYAo
Remember, #SayNoToTheirCheats!
I looked at the video. Would really like to know what made you think somebody is cheating here.

I do not believe that "most bridge player have "always" been dishonest".
Very few have.
Justin Lall is a very good player, but maybe not as good as think he is.
He is whining because he is not as successful as he would like to be.
In my opinion we have also the opposite problem.
Some like to accuse the whole world of cheating except themselves. How else could they loose so often?
In fact Justin Lall was himself accused at a recent high level tournament of "unethical behavior" though of course there was nothing in it.
Apparently he did not learn anything from being the target of such an accusation.
Kenny McCormack
2018-10-12 16:06:00 UTC
Permalink
In article <d2f40b62-0d9f-462c-b322-***@googlegroups.com>,
rhm <***@softwareag.com> wrote:
...
Post by rhm
I looked at the video. Would really like to know what made you think somebody is
cheating here.
I do not believe that "most bridge player have "always" been dishonest".
Very few have.
Justin Lall is a very good player, but maybe not as good as think he is.
He is whining because he is not as successful as he would like to be.
In my opinion we have also the opposite problem.
Some like to accuse the whole world of cheating except themselves. How else
could they loose so often?
In fact Justin Lall was himself accused at a recent high level tournament of
"unethical behavior" though of course there was nothing in it.
Apparently he did not learn anything from being the target of such an accusation.
I'd like to nominate this for Post of the Year!

So many nuances. So much to ridicule.
--
First of all, I do not appreciate your playing stupid here at all.

- Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn -
Mick Heins
2018-10-13 13:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by rhm
Post by Jonathan Ferguson
Recently a young woman on BridgeWinners decided that it was time to #saynotocheats but it's been pointed out to her that there are personable and well-regarded American pros who have exhibited unsavory behavior and been pardoned by the 'cool kids'. So we obviously can't say no to ALL cheats, right?
Suddenly it hit me. We can #SayNoToTHEIRCheats! It would be far too triggering and upsetting to say no to OUR cheats, but THEIR cheats? Their cheats are the WORST cheats!!!!
So please join me and #SayNoToTheirCheats
Original thread: https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/saynotocheats-2-hbiamlwd0r/
Discussion of why the idea is untenable, Elliot Shalita making a strong case: bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=708928
"Most bridge players have *always* been dishonest. And yeah you can say its because of money or titles or whatever, shocker they are more dishonest at the lower levels (perhaps unknowningly). The social ramifications of being dishonest at the higher levels are higher.
But yeah keep your heads in the sand. Worship the blue team, worship fantoni and nunes, etc. And after that know that your favorite players are just smart enough to get away with what they can. The game is and always has been a farce and it's really sad for people who just love the game. But the current (and past) models are unsustainable if you want a fair game. And no matter what, it will always be an unfair game. If I were to ever win the lottery, I would never play bridge again. The game is a joke and I play only for economic reasons at this point, and I hope to find an alternative to that but sadly its probably too late."
https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=705926
http://youtu.be/F0bCI2RKYAo
Remember, #SayNoToTheirCheats!
I looked at the video. Would really like to know what made you think
somebody is cheating here.
"She bids 5 hearts instantly."
--
Mickey

We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks
to the Internet, we know this is not true. -- Robert Wilensky
rhm
2018-10-13 17:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mick Heins
Post by rhm
Post by Jonathan Ferguson
Recently a young woman on BridgeWinners decided that it was time to #saynotocheats but it's been pointed out to her that there are personable and well-regarded American pros who have exhibited unsavory behavior and been pardoned by the 'cool kids'. So we obviously can't say no to ALL cheats, right?
Suddenly it hit me. We can #SayNoToTHEIRCheats! It would be far too triggering and upsetting to say no to OUR cheats, but THEIR cheats? Their cheats are the WORST cheats!!!!
So please join me and #SayNoToTheirCheats
Original thread: https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/saynotocheats-2-hbiamlwd0r/
Discussion of why the idea is untenable, Elliot Shalita making a strong case: bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=708928
"Most bridge players have *always* been dishonest. And yeah you can say its because of money or titles or whatever, shocker they are more dishonest at the lower levels (perhaps unknowningly). The social ramifications of being dishonest at the higher levels are higher.
But yeah keep your heads in the sand. Worship the blue team, worship fantoni and nunes, etc. And after that know that your favorite players are just smart enough to get away with what they can. The game is and always has been a farce and it's really sad for people who just love the game. But the current (and past) models are unsustainable if you want a fair game. And no matter what, it will always be an unfair game. If I were to ever win the lottery, I would never play bridge again. The game is a joke and I play only for economic reasons at this point, and I hope to find an alternative to that but sadly its probably too late."
https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=705926
http://youtu.be/F0bCI2RKYAo
Remember, #SayNoToTheirCheats!
I looked at the video. Would really like to know what made you think
somebody is cheating here.
"She bids 5 hearts instantly."
--
Mickey
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks
to the Internet, we know this is not true. -- Robert Wilensky
I understand that there was UI. But it is anything but clear that Korbel took advantage of it. He did not want to key-card initially because he would not know what to do over a 2 key-card reply.
Once he realized that in fact he did key-card he thought he was obligated to bid the slam, even though he was very skeptical whether the slam was worthwhile to bid from the outset.
What he wanted to do is to control bid spades and see whether his partner would bid the slam herself.
In fact the slam was basically on a finesse.
UI happen. This is not unethical when it happens accidentally. Taking advantage of it is unethical. I do not think Korbel did this.
Player
2018-11-06 03:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by rhm
Post by Mick Heins
Post by rhm
Post by Jonathan Ferguson
Recently a young woman on BridgeWinners decided that it was time to #saynotocheats but it's been pointed out to her that there are personable and well-regarded American pros who have exhibited unsavory behavior and been pardoned by the 'cool kids'. So we obviously can't say no to ALL cheats, right?
Suddenly it hit me. We can #SayNoToTHEIRCheats! It would be far too triggering and upsetting to say no to OUR cheats, but THEIR cheats? Their cheats are the WORST cheats!!!!
So please join me and #SayNoToTheirCheats
Original thread: https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/saynotocheats-2-hbiamlwd0r/
Discussion of why the idea is untenable, Elliot Shalita making a strong case: bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=708928
"Most bridge players have *always* been dishonest. And yeah you can say its because of money or titles or whatever, shocker they are more dishonest at the lower levels (perhaps unknowningly). The social ramifications of being dishonest at the higher levels are higher.
But yeah keep your heads in the sand. Worship the blue team, worship fantoni and nunes, etc. And after that know that your favorite players are just smart enough to get away with what they can. The game is and always has been a farce and it's really sad for people who just love the game. But the current (and past) models are unsustainable if you want a fair game. And no matter what, it will always be an unfair game. If I were to ever win the lottery, I would never play bridge again. The game is a joke and I play only for economic reasons at this point, and I hope to find an alternative to that but sadly its probably too late."
https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-talk-that-never-was-the-blue-team-rule/?cj=705926
http://youtu.be/F0bCI2RKYAo
Remember, #SayNoToTheirCheats!
I looked at the video. Would really like to know what made you think
somebody is cheating here.
"She bids 5 hearts instantly."
--
Mickey
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks
to the Internet, we know this is not true. -- Robert Wilensky
I understand that there was UI. But it is anything but clear that Korbel took advantage of it. He did not want to key-card initially because he would not know what to do over a 2 key-card reply.
Once he realized that in fact he did key-card he thought he was obligated to bid the slam, even though he was very skeptical whether the slam was worthwhile to bid from the outset.
What he wanted to do is to control bid spades and see whether his partner would bid the slam herself.
In fact the slam was basically on a finesse.
UI happen. This is not unethical when it happens accidentally. Taking advantage of it is unethical. I do not think Korbel did this.
I agree. To think this is cheating is the height of idiocy. By the way, Rainer, I agree with your previous post.
Jonathan Ferguson
2018-11-20 03:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Player
I agree. To think this is cheating is the height of idiocy. By the way, Rainer, I agree with your previous post.
Well, if "Player" says it, it must be true.

Obviously the point of this thread was to demonstrate that the bridge elites will do everything possible to protect their own and don't actually take the problem seriously.

I think the point has been proven.

You can play 'regular' bridge, cognizant of Justin Lall's warning. Or you can play against bots, which while not bridge in its purest form, at least completely mitigates the ubiquitous problem that Justin bravely reveals.
Player
2018-11-20 03:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Ferguson
Post by Player
I agree. To think this is cheating is the height of idiocy. By the way, Rainer, I agree with your previous post.
Well, if "Player" says it, it must be true.
Obviously the point of this thread was to demonstrate that the bridge elites will do everything possible to protect their own and don't actually take the problem seriously.
I think the point has been proven.
You can play 'regular' bridge, cognizant of Justin Lall's warning. Or you can play against bots, which while not bridge in its purest form, at least completely mitigates the ubiquitous problem that Justin bravely reveals.
"Well, if "Player" says it, it must be true."
Correct.
Bertel Lund Hansen
2018-11-20 09:31:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Ferguson
Or you can play against bots, which while not bridge in its
purest form, at least completely mitigates the ubiquitous
problem that Justin bravely reveals.
So you think that a bot cannot cheat?
--
/Bertel
Loading...