What do you do here?

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

Yes I do :P

tbh, I think I should pass, but I am not at all happy with the situation
as I think we need be in 3S if partner has 5
and I do not know

Co Wiersma

Fred.

2019-04-06 19:57:47 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

3S

4S with a hand worth a double raise in the absence of interference.

Cue bid (4D) with a hand worth a triple raise or splinter.

You risk getting a little high, but your opponents need to guess
whether or not to let you play it.

Fred.

Fred.

2019-04-06 20:22:27 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

3S
4S with a hand worth a double raise in the absence of interference.
Cue bid (4D) with a hand worth a triple raise or splinter.
You risk getting a little high, but your opponents need to guess
whether or not to let you play it.
Fred.

PS. I'm sympathetic to Co's view, but

(1) With 17+ total tricks and all my high cards either
neutral or offensive 3D or 3S is likely to make. 3S made,
or 3SX down 1 is likely a decent score.

(2) If I pass with 4-card support then responder is under
lots of pressure when 3D is passed around.

Fred.

ais523

2019-04-06 20:06:52 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

How strong is the 1S free bid? It only needs to be 9+ or so to make it
fairly likely that 3S makes even opposite four spades, regardless of
whether 3D makes (especially as West is probably short of spades); you
won't get a decent penalty undoubled at none vul. If it does make, you
should probably be bidding it.

X also seems like a reasonable bid here, subject to agreement on what it
means. 3DX is probably the correct place to play if partner has four
spades (and not four hearts), 3S or 4S if partner has five spades or
four hearts. So if it shows a hand fairly like this one, and in many
partnerships it would (although perhaps with one fewer spade), it
seems like the best bid for the circumstance. Note that it doesn't
matter if the double is misinterpreted as showing four hearts, as a) we
actually have four hearts and b) can probably correct any heart bid to
spades, unless partner would misinterpret that as forcing.

In an unfamiliar partnership, though, I think I'd bid 3S, which
logically has to show a minimum with four spades; the only debate about
the bid is whether it risks getting too high, not about whether partner
will interpret it correctly. It's pretty likely to make, it might push
the opponents to four, and partner is still unlimited; if partner
happens to be strong, it's much better to show my hand type now than
waiting for partner to reopen.

--
ais523

Tom

2019-04-07 00:53:24 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
I don't like picking these 4432 or 4423 hands playing 5 card majors,
holding two four card majors and cannot mention either of them
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

How strong is the 1S free bid? It only needs to be 9+ or so to make it
fairly likely that 3S makes even opposite four spades, regardless of
whether 3D makes (especially as West is probably short of spades); you
won't get a decent penalty undoubled at none vul. If it does make, you
should probably be bidding it.
X also seems like a reasonable bid here, subject to agreement on what
it means. 3DX is probably the correct place to play if partner has
four spades (and not four hearts), 3S or 4S if partner has five spades
or four hearts. So if it shows a hand fairly like this one, and in
many partnerships it would (although perhaps with one fewer spade), it
seems like the best bid for the circumstance. Note that it doesn't
matter if the double is misinterpreted as showing four hearts, as a)
we actually have four hearts and b) can probably correct any heart bid
to spades, unless partner would misinterpret that as forcing.
In an unfamiliar partnership, though, I think I'd bid 3S, which
logically has to show a minimum with four spades; the only debate
about the bid is whether it risks getting too high, not about whether
partner will interpret it correctly. It's pretty likely to make, it
might push the opponents to four, and partner is still unlimited; if
partner happens to be strong, it's much better to show my hand type
now than waiting for partner to reopen.

Standard is 1S shows 5 spades and 6+points as a negative X would hsow 4.
You have a minimum open but you have ( spades and the opps should also
have 9 so 3S is indicated.

ais523

2019-04-07 01:08:52 UTC

[snip]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

[snip]

Post by Tom
Standard is 1S shows 5 spades and 6+points as a negative X would hsow 4.
You have a minimum open but you have ( spades and the opps should also
have 9 so 3S is indicated.

This clearly isn't that sort of 1S free bid (we know it could be only
4 cards). As such, we can pretty much only ask the OP about what other
requirements it has (e.g. what sort of minimum strength it has).

FWIW, 6+ points seems a bit low to me for a free bid; the opponent's
bid means that you no longer have to worry about the auction being
passed out before the opener can rebid, so it makes sense to pass with
weak hands (an opener with a strong hand can always reopen). That said,
I'm finding a surprising amount of disagreement on this issue looking
at various sources; showing the same strength as you'd show without
the intervention is at least easy to remember, so it's often used in
beginner advice, but most more advanced systems do something more
complicated.

--
ais523

Tom

2019-04-07 02:26:26 UTC

Post by ais523
[snip]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

[snip]

Post by Tom
Standard is 1S shows 5 spades and 6+points as a negative X would hsow
4. You have a minimum open but you have ( spades and the opps should
also have 9 so 3S is indicated.

This clearly isn't that sort of 1S free bid (we know it could be only
4 cards). As such, we can pretty much only ask the OP about what other
requirements it has (e.g. what sort of minimum strength it has).
FWIW, 6+ points seems a bit low to me for a free bid; the opponent's
bid means that you no longer have to worry about the auction being
passed out before the opener can rebid, so it makes sense to pass with
weak hands (an opener with a strong hand can always reopen). That
said, I'm finding a surprising amount of disagreement on this issue
looking at various sources; showing the same strength as you'd show
without the intervention is at least easy to remember, so it's often
used in beginner advice, but most more advanced systems do something
more complicated.

If you play negative doubles, then 1S here showing 5 makes sense. Your
actual auction will probably end if you do not bid 3S now partner
doesn't know if you have more than a singleton spade and will probably
quit. You KNOW you have 9+ spades and opps have 9+ diamonds so law of
total tricks says BID even though you have a dead minumum 4 card raise.
(Aside: some pairs play a double by you now is not penalty but shows
extre values - like 15-17).

My explanation is standard US expert 2/1 so may not apply to you.

Also, you did not tell us who was vulnerable and what the 3D bid meant
(limit raise or weak preeemptive). This would have been important to
know.

Tom Reid

ais523

2019-04-07 02:49:36 UTC

Post by ais523
[snip]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

[snip]

Post by Tom
Standard is 1S shows 5 spades and 6+points as a negative X would hsow
4. You have a minimum open but you have ( spades and the opps should
also have 9 so 3S is indicated.

This clearly isn't that sort of 1S free bid (we know it could be only
4 cards). As such, we can pretty much only ask the OP about what other
requirements it has (e.g. what sort of minimum strength it has).
FWIW, 6+ points seems a bit low to me for a free bid; the opponent's
bid means that you no longer have to worry about the auction being
passed out before the opener can rebid, so it makes sense to pass with
weak hands (an opener with a strong hand can always reopen). That
said, I'm finding a surprising amount of disagreement on this issue
looking at various sources; showing the same strength as you'd show
without the intervention is at least easy to remember, so it's often
used in beginner advice, but most more advanced systems do something
more complicated.

If you play negative doubles, then 1S here showing 5 makes sense. Your
actual auction will probably end if you do not bid 3S now partner
doesn't know if you have more than a singleton spade and will probably
quit. You KNOW you have 9+ spades and opps have 9+ diamonds so law of
total tricks says BID even though you have a dead minumum 4 card raise.
(Aside: some pairs play a double by you now is not penalty but shows
extre values - like 15-17).
My explanation is standard US expert 2/1 so may not apply to you.
Also, you did not tell us who was vulnerable and what the 3D bid meant
(limit raise or weak preeemptive). This would have been important to
know.

Err, my post was a reply to an earlier post by someone else (as can be
seen by the attribution lines). That post had specified that 1S showed
only 4 (without further details), and also had the vulnerability
specified (none vul); my point was that given that this isn't a normal
sort of 1S bid, the normal conclusions might not apply. It wasn't me who
had the original problem, so I don't know what 1S meant (and although
I don't know what 3D meant for certain, most people would play it as
pre-emptive).

--
ais523

Hotzenplotz

2019-04-07 09:45:06 UTC

Uh, no Tom. Suggest you look up negative doubles. X here woud show H or S or both.

How strong is the 1S free bid? It only needs to be 9+ or so to make it
fairly likely that 3S makes even opposite four spades, regardless of
whether 3D makes (especially as West is probably short of spades); you
won't get a decent penalty undoubled at none vul. If it does make, you
should probably be bidding it.
X also seems like a reasonable bid here, subject to agreement on what
it means. 3DX is probably the correct place to play if partner has
four spades (and not four hearts), 3S or 4S if partner has five spades
or four hearts. So if it shows a hand fairly like this one, and in
many partnerships it would (although perhaps with one fewer spade), it
seems like the best bid for the circumstance. Note that it doesn't
matter if the double is misinterpreted as showing four hearts, as a)
we actually have four hearts and b) can probably correct any heart bid
to spades, unless partner would misinterpret that as forcing.
In an unfamiliar partnership, though, I think I'd bid 3S, which
logically has to show a minimum with four spades; the only debate
about the bid is whether it risks getting too high, not about whether
partner will interpret it correctly. It's pretty likely to make, it
might push the opponents to four, and partner is still unlimited; if
partner happens to be strong, it's much better to show my hand type
now than waiting for partner to reopen.

Standard is 1S shows 5 spades and 6+points as a negative X would hsow 4.
You have a minimum open but you have ( spades and the opps should also
have 9 so 3S is indicated.

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2019-04-07 13:19:38 UTC

Post by Hotzenplotz
Uh, no Tom. Suggest you look up negative doubles. X here woud show H or S or both.

How strong is the 1S free bid? It only needs to be 9+ or so to make it
fairly likely that 3S makes even opposite four spades, regardless of
whether 3D makes (especially as West is probably short of spades); you
won't get a decent penalty undoubled at none vul. If it does make, you
should probably be bidding it.
X also seems like a reasonable bid here, subject to agreement on what
it means. 3DX is probably the correct place to play if partner has
four spades (and not four hearts), 3S or 4S if partner has five spades
or four hearts. So if it shows a hand fairly like this one, and in
many partnerships it would (although perhaps with one fewer spade), it
seems like the best bid for the circumstance. Note that it doesn't
matter if the double is misinterpreted as showing four hearts, as a)
we actually have four hearts and b) can probably correct any heart bid
to spades, unless partner would misinterpret that as forcing.
In an unfamiliar partnership, though, I think I'd bid 3S, which
logically has to show a minimum with four spades; the only debate
about the bid is whether it risks getting too high, not about whether
partner will interpret it correctly. It's pretty likely to make, it
might push the opponents to four, and partner is still unlimited; if
partner happens to be strong, it's much better to show my hand type
now than waiting for partner to reopen.

Standard is 1S shows 5 spades and 6+points as a negative X would hsow 4.
You have a minimum open but you have ( spades and the opps should also
have 9 so 3S is indicated.

No. In acbl sayc, it guarantees both majors.

http://web2.acbl.org/documentlibrary/play/SP3%20(bk)%20single%20pages.pdf

Carl

Barry Margolin

2019-04-08 02:06:44 UTC

How strong is the 1S free bid? It only needs to be 9+ or so to make it
fairly likely that 3S makes even opposite four spades, regardless of
whether 3D makes (especially as West is probably short of spades); you
won't get a decent penalty undoubled at none vul. If it does make, you
should probably be bidding it.
X also seems like a reasonable bid here, subject to agreement on what
it means. 3DX is probably the correct place to play if partner has
four spades (and not four hearts), 3S or 4S if partner has five spades
or four hearts. So if it shows a hand fairly like this one, and in
many partnerships it would (although perhaps with one fewer spade), it
seems like the best bid for the circumstance. Note that it doesn't
matter if the double is misinterpreted as showing four hearts, as a)
we actually have four hearts and b) can probably correct any heart bid
to spades, unless partner would misinterpret that as forcing.
In an unfamiliar partnership, though, I think I'd bid 3S, which
logically has to show a minimum with four spades; the only debate
about the bid is whether it risks getting too high, not about whether
partner will interpret it correctly. It's pretty likely to make, it
might push the opponents to four, and partner is still unlimited; if
partner happens to be strong, it's much better to show my hand type
now than waiting for partner to reopen.

Standard is 1S shows 5 spades and 6+points as a negative X would hsow 4.
You have a minimum open but you have ( spades and the opps should also
have 9 so 3S is indicated.

Standard is that a negative X shows both majors. Some people play that X
shows either both majors or 1 major and the ability to handle opener
bidding the wrong major (either the ability to bid NT or raise opener's
suit); in that case, bidding a major shows 5+ in the major.

But the original post says that 1S could be a 4-card suit. I'm not
bidding with this minimum. If partner has anything extra, he can reopen
and then I'll show my spade support.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2019-04-07 01:28:16 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

If you bid 3S, it will not enter your partner's worst nightmare that you have a balanced minimum.

Carl

ais523

2019-04-07 01:35:35 UTC

If you bid 3S, it will not enter your partner's worst nightmare that
you have a balanced minimum.

How strong is 1S for you? How strong is 3S?

3S surely can't be forcing here, so if 1S shows strength, then 3S shows
a minimum (otherwise the opener would just bid game). I also can't see
any information why it can't be balanced (it probably has exactly four
spades, but it doesn't seem to deny a balanced hand, unless you've
agreed that those should be bid with X).

If 1S can be fairly weak, then obviously 3S gets stronger to match;
assuming a 15-17 1NT opening, that might deny balanced hands as they
would have opened 1NT. I can't see any other reason why the bid would
deny a balanced hand, though.

--
ais523

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2019-04-07 13:24:12 UTC

If you bid 3S, it will not enter your partner's worst nightmare that
you have a balanced minimum.

How strong is 1S for you? How strong is 3S?
3S surely can't be forcing here, so if 1S shows strength, then 3S shows
a minimum (otherwise the opener would just bid game). I also can't see
any information why it can't be balanced (it probably has exactly four
spades, but it doesn't seem to deny a balanced hand, unless you've
agreed that those should be bid with X).
If 1S can be fairly weak, then obviously 3S gets stronger to match;
assuming a 15-17 1NT opening, that might deny balanced hands as they
would have opened 1NT. I can't see any other reason why the bid would
deny a balanced hand, though.
--
ais523

3S shows a minimum, but promises some play opposite 6-pt 4333.

So 4=2=2=5 with most honors in long suits.

Because responder will not know to shut up.

Carl

a***@yahoo.co.uk

2019-04-07 09:05:04 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

At the table, I thought 1S showed a better than minimum response (8+HCP or a good 7) and at least four spades. I wimped out bidding 3S on the basis that I have a flat minimum with eight losers. This was a complete bottom, as 3S makes and 3D only goes one off. Three out of the other four pairs didn't get this problem and played in 2S, one pair was in 3S.

The full deal:

KJ43
T932
A3
A63
QT 62
QJ75 K64
T754 KQ982
K74 Q95
A9875
A8
J6
JT82

3D can go two off, but we blew a trick when partner led the CJ which was ducked to the Q, then when partner got in again she led the CT K, A which set up the C9 for declarer. After the first club lead the suit becomes frozen.

After a brief discussion with partner afterwards she claimed any response of a major over an overcall guarentees a 5 card suit, and a double shows a four card major. I can see the point of this if the overcall is in a major, but after 1C (1D) I have always played 1H/S as 4+ cards and X shows both majors. If you can't bid a four card major immediately what does opener do with a minimum hand after 1C (1D) X (2D) holding one 4 card major?

Lorne

2019-04-08 11:30:35 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

Not sure why everybody is talking about points and nobody has mentioned
the losing trick count which is beleived by nearly all good players to
be a better way to assess your hand in a competitive auction with a fit.

The oppo have shown a 9 card fit, you have at least 8 spades so 3S is
clear IMO. If it goes -1 then 3D should be making most of the time and
if 3D is -1 then 3S should make most of the time.

Kenny McCormack

2019-04-08 11:44:35 UTC

In article <q8fbd1$9kc$***@dont-email.me>,
Lorne <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
...

Post by Lorne
Not sure why everybody is talking about points and nobody has mentioned
the losing trick count which is beleived by nearly all good players to
be a better way to assess your hand in a competitive auction with a fit.

Don't you mean "total tricks"? (Rather than "losing trick")

Post by Lorne
The oppo have shown a 9 card fit, you have at least 8 spades so 3S is
clear IMO. If it goes -1 then 3D should be making most of the time and
if 3D is -1 then 3S should make most of the time.

--
It's possible that leasing office space to a Starbucks is a greater liability
in today's GOP than is hitting your mother on the head with a hammer.

Co Wiersma

2019-04-08 12:56:45 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
I don't like picking these 4432 or 4423 hands playing 5 card majors,
holding two four card majors and cannot mention either of them
   N   E   S   W
   1C 1D 1S 3D
   ?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

Not sure why everybody is talking about points and nobody has mentioned
the losing trick count which is beleived by nearly all good players to
be a better way to assess your hand in a competitive auction with a fit.
The oppo have shown a 9 card fit, you have at least 8 spades so 3S is
clear IMO. If it goes -1 then 3D should be making most of the time and
if 3D is -1 then 3S should make most of the time.

I do not know they have a nine card fit
Maybe they should have, if their bidding system is up to your standard,
but even so , I guess there could be an exeption

And if they have a nine card fit, then I think I have the worst possible
diamond holding

Mind you, I do not criticize your 3S bid, I am just in doubt

Co Wiersma

Fred.

2019-04-08 22:28:48 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

Not sure why everybody is talking about points and nobody has mentioned
the losing trick count which is beleived by nearly all good players to
be a better way to assess your hand in a competitive auction with a fit.
The oppo have shown a 9 card fit, you have at least 8 spades so 3S is
clear IMO. If it goes -1 then 3D should be making most of the time and
if 3D is -1 then 3S should make most of the time.

Actually, I estimated 9 total trump and total tricks. At match points
a pass seems to be a bet that both 3S and 3D go down.

The problem that people are facing is that 3S in this situation
cannot be both a constructive bid towards game and a competitive
bid based on LOTT. The former hurts one's ability to compete for
part scores and the latter hurts one's game bidding accuracy.

You and I seem to judge it more important to compete for the part
scores. But, a responder who takes 3S as constructive will often
re-raise to 4S when you can make 3S.

Fred.

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2019-04-09 18:42:03 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

Not sure why everybody is talking about points and nobody has mentioned
the losing trick count which is beleived by nearly all good players to
be a better way to assess your hand in a competitive auction with a fit.
The oppo have shown a 9 card fit, you have at least 8 spades so 3S is
clear IMO. If it goes -1 then 3D should be making most of the time and
if 3D is -1 then 3S should make most of the time.

Actually, I estimated 9 total trump and total tricks. At match points
a pass seems to be a bet that both 3S and 3D go down.
The problem that people are facing is that 3S in this situation
cannot be both a constructive bid towards game and a competitive
bid based on LOTT. The former hurts one's ability to compete for
part scores and the latter hurts one's game bidding accuracy.
You and I seem to judge it more important to compete for the part
scores. But, a responder who takes 3S as constructive will often
re-raise to 4S when you can make 3S.
Fred.

It doesn't matter if partner considers 3S constructive. Why would he not bid 4 if he has an offensive trick and a half more than he might?

Carl

Fred.

2019-04-09 19:41:21 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

Not sure why everybody is talking about points and nobody has mentioned
the losing trick count which is beleived by nearly all good players to
be a better way to assess your hand in a competitive auction with a fit.
The oppo have shown a 9 card fit, you have at least 8 spades so 3S is
clear IMO. If it goes -1 then 3D should be making most of the time and
if 3D is -1 then 3S should make most of the time.

Actually, I estimated 9 total trump and total tricks. At match points
a pass seems to be a bet that both 3S and 3D go down.
The problem that people are facing is that 3S in this situation
cannot be both a constructive bid towards game and a competitive
bid based on LOTT. The former hurts one's ability to compete for
part scores and the latter hurts one's game bidding accuracy.
You and I seem to judge it more important to compete for the part
scores. But, a responder who takes 3S as constructive will often
re-raise to 4S when you can make 3S.
Fred.

It doesn't matter if partner considers 3S constructive. Why would he not bid 4 if he has an offensive trick and a half more than he might?
Carl

Because a competitive 3S bid says that it is likely that one
side or the other, not necessarily ours, is likely to take 9
tricks. If responder has the trick and a half extra, that
means we are the ones who can take 9 tricks.

Raising on such a hand assures that insures that in the
future partner will bid 3S only with a good prospect of
9 tricks and let the ops play what is usually a
profitable 3D.

Fred.

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2019-04-11 12:05:26 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

Not sure why everybody is talking about points and nobody has mentioned
the losing trick count which is beleived by nearly all good players to
be a better way to assess your hand in a competitive auction with a fit.
The oppo have shown a 9 card fit, you have at least 8 spades so 3S is
clear IMO. If it goes -1 then 3D should be making most of the time and
if 3D is -1 then 3S should make most of the time.

Actually, I estimated 9 total trump and total tricks. At match points
a pass seems to be a bet that both 3S and 3D go down.
The problem that people are facing is that 3S in this situation
cannot be both a constructive bid towards game and a competitive
bid based on LOTT. The former hurts one's ability to compete for
part scores and the latter hurts one's game bidding accuracy.
You and I seem to judge it more important to compete for the part
scores. But, a responder who takes 3S as constructive will often
re-raise to 4S when you can make 3S.
Fred.

It doesn't matter if partner considers 3S constructive. Why would he not bid 4 if he has an offensive trick and a half more than he might?
Carl

Because a competitive 3S bid says that it is likely that one
side or the other, not necessarily ours, is likely to take 9
tricks. If responder has the trick and a half extra, that
means we are the ones who can take 9 tricks.
Raising on such a hand assures that insures that in the
future partner will bid 3S only with a good prospect of
9 tricks and let the ops play what is usually a
profitable 3D.
Fred.

notice i said a trick and a half, not a trick.

responder's hand is unlimited!

Carl

Fred.

2019-04-12 15:52:03 UTC

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
KJ43
T932
A3
A63
N E S W
1C 1D 1S 3D
?
Assuming the 1S bid could be four, do you bid 3S or pass?

Not sure why everybody is talking about points and nobody has mentioned
the losing trick count which is beleived by nearly all good players to
be a better way to assess your hand in a competitive auction with a fit.
The oppo have shown a 9 card fit, you have at least 8 spades so 3S is
clear IMO. If it goes -1 then 3D should be making most of the time and
if 3D is -1 then 3S should make most of the time.

Actually, I estimated 9 total trump and total tricks. At match points
a pass seems to be a bet that both 3S and 3D go down.
The problem that people are facing is that 3S in this situation
cannot be both a constructive bid towards game and a competitive
bid based on LOTT. The former hurts one's ability to compete for
part scores and the latter hurts one's game bidding accuracy.
You and I seem to judge it more important to compete for the part
scores. But, a responder who takes 3S as constructive will often
re-raise to 4S when you can make 3S.
Fred.

It doesn't matter if partner considers 3S constructive. Why would he not bid 4 if he has an offensive trick and a half more than he might?
Carl

Because a competitive 3S bid says that it is likely that one
side or the other, not necessarily ours, is likely to take 9
tricks. If responder has the trick and a half extra, that
means we are the ones who can take 9 tricks.
Raising on such a hand assures that insures that in the
future partner will bid 3S only with a good prospect of
9 tricks and let the ops play what is usually a
profitable 3D.
Fred.

notice i said a trick and a half, not a trick.
responder's hand is unlimited!
Carl

Nevertheless, responder should not raise to game unless
wanting to be there facing a minimum. Responder playing
weak notrump would be right to expect a better hand, but,
here, the partnership is playing strong notrump.

Your partnership may reasonably agree to expect more out
of opener for 3S and improve the accuracy of its game bidding
in this situation, but it will lose out on more of the part
score hands.

Fred.

Will in New Haven

2019-04-17 21:14:34 UTC