Discussion:
Monday 6/3/17 novice evening, hand 1
(too old to reply)
Adam Lea
2017-03-07 22:49:59 UTC
Permalink
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
anyway:

I held as East:

K9765
AKQ53
4
87

South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
time I have ever made this bid). The full hand and auction was:

J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln

N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP

As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.

The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.

It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Player
2017-03-08 06:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
Player
2017-03-08 06:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Player
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
By the way, your pd has a 2NT bid, not a double.
Player
2017-03-09 00:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
By the way, your pd has a 2NT bid, not a double.
Sorry meant 3NT.
Will in New Haven
2017-03-11 02:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
By the way, your pd has a 2NT bid, not a double.
Sorry meant 3NT.
But 2NT saves bidding room.
--
Will now in Pompano Beach
Player
2017-03-11 04:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
By the way, your pd has a 2NT bid, not a double.
Sorry meant 3NT.
But 2NT saves bidding room.
--
Will now in Pompano Beach
Strongly agree with 2NT if the opps accept it. :-)
Will in New Haven
2017-03-11 23:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Player
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
By the way, your pd has a 2NT bid, not a double.
Sorry meant 3NT.
But 2NT saves bidding room.
--
Will now in Pompano Beach
Strongly agree with 2NT if the opps accept it. :-)
I was a fill-in director for a morning game where the auction went:

N E S W
IH X 1NT X
P 1NT 2C before I was called to the table. I hate directing.
--
Will in New Haven
And morning games
Fred.
2017-03-12 20:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Lea
Post by Player
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Player
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
By the way, your pd has a 2NT bid, not a double.
Sorry meant 3NT.
But 2NT saves bidding room.
--
Will now in Pompano Beach
Strongly agree with 2NT if the opps accept it. :-)
N E S W
IH X 1NT X
P 1NT 2C before I was called to the table. I hate directing.
--
Will in New Haven
And morning games
The exception was East's insufficient bid of 1NT which South
accepted by biding 2C. 27A1, "continue play", and back to
drinking coffee. What am I missing?

Fred.

Adam Lea
2017-03-08 09:02:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Player
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
Partner is a reasonable intermediate club player, not weak.
KWSchneider
2017-03-08 17:00:00 UTC
Permalink
On 08 Mar 2017 04:02 AM ,Adam Lea <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

<snipped>
Post by Adam Lea
Post by Player
Post by Adam Lea
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
<snipped>
Post by Adam Lea
Post by Player
Playing with a weak player I bid 4NT over the x and then 6H.
Playing with Doug, or a good partner I start with 4D. Pd will bid 4S. I BW and we pay 6S.
Partner is a reasonable intermediate club player, not weak.
Partner's bidding would not necessarily support this. The double is problematic, especially if your response is 4H. IMO this is a clear 3N call.

Secondly, not understanding or deducing the intent of the 4D bid indicates a lack of bidding moxy/experience.

The 'ideal' auction in MP would be:

3D P P 3N;
P 4D P 4S;
P 4N P 5S;
P 6S AP

Unfortunately I can see no clear way of getting to 6N, since East should consider 6S on Kxxxx AKxxx x xx which has no play for 6N opposite the actual hand.
--
Posted by Mimo Usenet Browser v0.2.5
http://www.mimousenet.com/mimo/post
Lorne Anderson
2017-03-08 14:48:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
I do not understand the double. The hand is balanced, has no 5 card
suit, is short in one of the unbid majors, has a decent diamond stop and
18 points. What does 3N mean in your system ????

After 3N, E should bid 4D (pick a major) and then raise spades.
Adam Lea
2017-03-08 20:22:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lorne Anderson
Post by Adam Lea
An interesting hand from the novice evening where partner and I showed
the beginners how not to bid against a pre-empt. I ended up playing with
one of my regular partners who was also there to help (I was directing),
not ideal, it would have been better to pair a helper with a novice, but
K9765
AKQ53
4
87
South opens 3D and partner doubles, RHO passes. I have heard somewhere
that cue bidding a pre-empt shows a good responding hand with both
majors, equal length, and asks partner to choose, so I bid 4D (first
J8
T976
A9
QJT62
AQT3 K9765
J4 AKQ53
KJ2 4
AK95 87
42
82
QT87653
43
NS vuln
N E S W
3D X
P 4D P 4NT
P 5H P 6NT
AP
As you can see, the auction was a bit of a mess. After my 4D bid partner
went into the tank and looked very confused, I could see the strain on
her face trying to work out what 4D meant. She responded 4NT, apparently
intended as Blackwood, but I had no idea what it was supposed to be, so
I assumed strong/natural, and after a think, decided to bid my best
major. Partner leaps to 6NT.
The NS novices were as confused about the auction as we were, I think
the DA was led, and I put my hand down, mumbling something about 4D
trying to show a choice of majors. As it happens partner has a strong
hand (coincidentally I wasn't far out with my guess as to what she had
with the 4NT bid), and 6NT is an easy make with ten major suit tricks
and the club AK. So a rubbish auction gets us a total top. I apologised
to NS for duffing them up like that, and tried to give some explanation
as to what I (we) were trying to communicate in the auction, I'm not
sure I did a good job on that.
It wasn't like this all evening, the punishment hand came up on the next
round.
I do not understand the double. The hand is balanced, has no 5 card
suit, is short in one of the unbid majors, has a decent diamond stop and
18 points. What does 3N mean in your system ????
After 3N, E should bid 4D (pick a major) and then raise spades.
3NT would be natural. I agree it is the optimal way to show that hand,
and I'm not sure why partner chose to double instead. We don't play very
much in the way of conventions, and this particular partner would rather
not take on new material, as she is concerned about the mental effort
required to learn and remember it.
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