How would you rule ?

[Dave Flower]

Opening lead: Sx

Declarer calls for a card from dummy, who holds A8

Next hand plays Sx simultaneously with dummy playing the A.

Defenders both claim declarer called for the ace, dummy says the 8 as did declarer.

Can third hand change their card ?

Dave Flower

[Barry Margolin]

Post by Dave Flower
Opening lead: Sx
Declarer calls for a card from dummy, who holds A8
Next hand plays Sx simultaneously with dummy playing the A.
Defenders both claim declarer called for the ace, dummy says the 8 as did declarer.
Can third hand change their card ?
Dave Flower

If dummy claims that declarer called for the 8, why did he play the ace?

We need to somehow determine what card declarer actually called for.
Third hand can change their card if dummy played a card different from
what was called (assuming this is all happening before each side has
played to the next trick).

If the two sides disagree, the TD has to pick one to go with.

[Dave Flower]

Post by Barry Margolin

Post by Dave Flower
Opening lead: Sx
Declarer calls for a card from dummy, who holds A8
Next hand plays Sx simultaneously with dummy playing the A.
Defenders both claim declarer called for the ace, dummy says the 8 as did declarer.
Can third hand change their card ?
Dave Flower

If dummy claims that declarer called for the 8, why did he play the ace?
We need to somehow determine what card declarer actually called for.
Third hand can change their card if dummy played a card different from
what was called (assuming this is all happening before each side has
played to the next trick).
If the two sides disagree, the TD has to pick one to go with.
--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

Sorry, dummy played the 8

David Flower

[Barry Margolin]

Post by Dave Flower

Post by Barry Margolin

Post by Dave Flower
Opening lead: Sx
Declarer calls for a card from dummy, who holds A8
Next hand plays Sx simultaneously with dummy playing the A.
Defenders both claim declarer called for the ace, dummy says the 8 as did declarer.
Can third hand change their card ?
Dave Flower

If dummy claims that declarer called for the 8, why did he play the ace?
We need to somehow determine what card declarer actually called for.
Third hand can change their card if dummy played a card different from
what was called (assuming this is all happening before each side has
played to the next trick).
If the two sides disagree, the TD has to pick one to go with.

Sorry, dummy played the 8

If third-hand heard something different from what dummy actually played,
they could have pointed out the disparity before playing his card. If
they didn't notice it, they're not paying sufficient attention to the
game.

I would rule that if dummy played the card that declarer claims to have
called, it's the correct card.

I suppose this leaves the door open for dummy to take over the play --
declarer could mumble something, dummy plays a card, and then declarer
claims that this is what he said. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[f***@googlemail.com]

Post by Dave Flower
Opening lead: Sx
Declarer calls for a card from dummy, who holds A8
Next hand plays Sx simultaneously with dummy playing the A.
Defenders both claim declarer called for the ace, dummy says the 8 as did declarer.
Can third hand change their card ?
Dave Flower

No.
Third hand played out of rotation. He has to suffer the consequences.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by f***@googlemail.com

Post by Dave Flower
Opening lead: Sx
Declarer calls for a card from dummy, who holds A8
Next hand plays Sx simultaneously with dummy playing the A.
Defenders both claim declarer called for the ace, dummy says the 8 as did declarer.
Can third hand change their card ?
Dave Flower

No.
Third hand played out of rotation. He has to suffer the consequences.

After ascertaining the facts the TD should announce his findings and his reasoning for his conclusion. What is of interest to defenders is L21A:

No rectification or redress is due to a player who acts on the basis of his own
misunderstanding.

It is notable that the defenders have ample time to challenge the card put in a played position by dummy prior to 3rd hand exposing his card; and failure to challenge before playing carries strong weight. This cannot necessarily be said of declarer, but there is some expectation that he promptly challenge when it is different from his designation.

aside> That the law provides for unwinding so many plays upon claiming dummy's card was incorrect is bonkers.

axman

[3NT]

Post by Dave Flower
Opening lead: Sx
Declarer calls for a card from dummy, who holds A8
Next hand plays Sx simultaneously with dummy playing the A.
Defenders both claim declarer called for the ace, dummy says the 8 as did declarer.
Can third hand change their card ?
Dave Flower

That is a problem with ace & eight sounding so much alike. I would try to determine which card declarer intended, third hand can change their card played at this trick. I like to call high or low to avoid misunderstandings.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by 3NT
That is a problem with ace & eight sounding so much alike. I
would try to determine which card declarer intended, third
hand can change their card played at this trick. I like to
call high or low to avoid misunderstandings.

In Danish "otte" and "es" are not similar, but "ni" and "ti" are
(nine, ten). I also like to call "lille" or "stor" but that's
more laziness than anything else.

[Barry Margolin]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by 3NT
That is a problem with ace & eight sounding so much alike. I
would try to determine which card declarer intended, third
hand can change their card played at this trick. I like to
call high or low to avoid misunderstandings.

In Danish "otte" and "es" are not similar, but "ni" and "ti" are
(nine, ten). I also like to call "lille" or "stor" but that's
more laziness than anything else.

Luckily, if dummy has both 9 and 10 in the suit they're equivalent, so
there shouldn't be any repercussions from hearing this one wrong.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Barry Margolin
Luckily, if dummy has both 9 and 10 in the suit they're equivalent, so
there shouldn't be any repercussions from hearing this one wrong.

... except that I insist on dummy playing the correct card.

I once defended against a pair where there was K Q X X X X on the
table. Declarer asked for the king. I was busy studying my cards
and planning the following play and just followed suit. A couple
of tricks later I was mildly shocked to see the spade king on the
table. It was quite confusing. I asked for an explanation and
learned that dummy had played the queen.

That was not fair, and I told them so.

[Barry Margolin]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Barry Margolin
Luckily, if dummy has both 9 and 10 in the suit they're equivalent, so
there shouldn't be any repercussions from hearing this one wrong.

... except that I insist on dummy playing the correct card.
I once defended against a pair where there was K Q X X X X on the
table. Declarer asked for the king. I was busy studying my cards
and planning the following play and just followed suit. A couple
of tricks later I was mildly shocked to see the spade king on the
table. It was quite confusing. I asked for an explanation and
learned that dummy had played the queen.
That was not fair, and I told them so.

But this isn't a case where you were likely to mishear what was called.
If declarer called for the 9, but you heard 10, would you have made a
big deal of it?

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Barry Margolin
But this isn't a case where you were likely to mishear what was called.
If declarer called for the 9, but you heard 10, would you have made a
big deal of it?

If I heard "10", and dummy advanced the 9, I would have made a
deal of it.

[Barry Margolin]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Barry Margolin
But this isn't a case where you were likely to mishear what was called.
If declarer called for the 9, but you heard 10, would you have made a
big deal of it?

If I heard "10", and dummy advanced the 9, I would have made a
deal of it.

Even thought declarer actually called for the 9, and you misheard? So
dummy did nothing wrong?

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Barry Margolin
Even thought declarer actually called for the 9, and you misheard? So
dummy did nothing wrong?

How am I to know that I misheard if I don't react?

"Make a deal of" does not mean "raise hell". I removed "big" on
purpose.