An anomalous hand from this evening

[Adam Lea]

5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.

No-one vulnerable, I was North holding this hand:

K
Q5
K86532
KQT9

N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP

*weak

My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
tricks. The full deal:

K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6

Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

[jogs]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

They opened South's hand.

[Lorne Anderson]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

N E S W
P 1C
1D P 1H P
1N P 4H

I would not open S as it is too weak for 1H and I will lose a spade
contract if I pre-empt. Also coming in later increases the chance of
the oppo doubling and I have some surpeises for them.

If E bids 1S the I bid 2H with S.

[Charles Brenner]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

South's bidding was stolid & unremarkable, so while some players *might* bid the South hand differently, it would be weird to claim South *should* have taken other action, especially not any specific action.

North preempting 2D on a scattered 11 count though is obviously experimental. The idea behind it may be winning bridge in the long run, but it may not and with this incident it has a track record of zero out of one. I wouldn't blame North as with so improbable and unexpected a South hand it's possible to dismiss this result as a one-off. However, if my imaginative bids aren't dazzling the fans, I'd consider becoming less imaginative.

[Charles Brenner]

Post by Charles Brenner

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

South's bidding was stolid & unremarkable, so while some players *might* bid the South hand differently, it would be weird to claim South *should* have taken other action, especially not any specific action.
North preempting 2D on a scattered 11 count though is obviously experimental. The idea behind it may be winning bridge in the long run, but it may not and with this incident it has a track record of zero out of one. I wouldn't blame North as with so improbable and unexpected a South hand it's possible to dismiss this result as a one-off. However, if my imaginative bids aren't dazzling the fans, I'd consider becoming less imaginative.

-- Come to think of it the North hand has 13HCP, points the opponents don't have, bad offense and sneaky defensive values. Taking dramatic action is an error.

[Fred.]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

In my book your hand had a huge amount of defense for a WJO.
Your partner with 4+ losers had a reasonable expectation
that you couldn't cover 1+ of them, let alone 2. Partner
should be content to buy the hand in a part score.

A 1D overcall wouldn't exactly be good news to partner, but
would suggest the possibility of help in the majors.

I'm not in a position to decide whether or not 2D was the
correct tactical bid against your opponents but it certainly
did not work on this hand. The WJO here also risked an
advance pseudo sac if partner was reasonably aggressive.

Fred.

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

As South I would have opened 2H.

I wouldn't have bid 2D. It doesn't take up much bidding room. I think any gain is less than the loss from giving Them the info about your hand. It could easily encourage them to bid more. And you have an OK defensive hand.

[Travis Crump]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

I'm of the opinion that by not preempting to keep a side major in play,
the side major is rarely mentioned anyway. That being said the heart
suit is fairly ratty so it is not clear how you'd preempt it. 4H seems
the right level, but again the suit is probably too bad for that.

Most Wests will open 1D or a strong NT. Over 1D North passes, if East
passes South gets the opportunity he was hoping for and bids Michael's.
And similarly if it goes 1N-p-p, South shows both majors. When North
picks hearts, South either bids game themselves or raises to 3 and North
goes onto game. If East responds 1S to 1D, South likely bids 3H now, and
North may or may not raise. If North bids diamonds[or the minors] over a
strong NT, I doubt you get to the heart game.

[Adam Lea]

Post by Travis Crump

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

I'm of the opinion that by not preempting to keep a side major in play,
the side major is rarely mentioned anyway. That being said the heart
suit is fairly ratty so it is not clear how you'd preempt it. 4H seems
the right level, but again the suit is probably too bad for that.
Most Wests will open 1D or a strong NT. Over 1D North passes, if East
passes South gets the opportunity he was hoping for and bids Michael's.
And similarly if it goes 1N-p-p, South shows both majors. When North
picks hearts, South either bids game themselves or raises to 3 and North
goes onto game. If East responds 1S to 1D, South likely bids 3H now, and
North may or may not raise. If North bids diamonds[or the minors] over a
strong NT, I doubt you get to the heart game.

In my local club, most people are playing Acol, 12-14 1NT, and open the
lowest of touching suits, so my guess is most are opening 1C with the
West hand planning to rebid 1NT. It would be nice if bridge technology
advanced to the point where the auction could be recorded as well as the
contract, opening lead and score, it would be very insightful on hands
like this. If I overcall 1D instead of 2D, it is still not obvious how
4H is reached, unless at some other tables South just punts it.

[jogs]

Post by Adam Lea
It would be nice if bridge technology
advanced to the point where the auction could be recorded as well as the
contract, opening lead and score, it would be very insightful on hands
like this. If I overcall 1D instead of 2D, it is still not obvious how
4H is reached, unless at some other tables South just punts it.

On online bridge, the hand history does show the bidding and play of all tables.

[Adam Lea]

Post by jogs

Post by Adam Lea
It would be nice if bridge technology
advanced to the point where the auction could be recorded as well as the
contract, opening lead and score, it would be very insightful on hands
like this. If I overcall 1D instead of 2D, it is still not obvious how
4H is reached, unless at some other tables South just punts it.

On online bridge, the hand history does show the bidding and play of all tables.

I've tried online bridge before, and couldn't really get into it. I
found that trying to concentrate on the hand led me to staring intensely
at the screen which didn't do my eyes any good. Staring at real cards at
a real table whilst concentrating is a lot easier.

[Robert Chance]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

It's probably going against the field, but I would certainly have opened the South hand, either with 3H or 4H. The hand may not play that well in spades unless partner has five of them (which is decidedly unlikely), and there is every possibility that opponents will end up playing in spades themselves after a pre-empt.

Indeed, on this hand it is quite likely that opponents will end up in spades: 3H-X-P-3S or 4H-X-P-4S are both quite plausible auctions. Unfortunately, you are unlikely to be able to double them in spades, and partner's fitting card in spades plus the 2-2 heart break means that 4H is cold. Still, you are likely to get +250 defending a spade contract.

[jogs]

Post by Robert Chance

Post by Adam Lea
QJT73
KT76432
-
6

It's probably going against the field, but I would certainly have opened the South hand, either with 3H or 4H. The hand may not play that well in spades unless partner has five of them (which is decidedly unlikely), and there is every possibility that opponents will end up playing in spades themselves after a pre-empt.

4 spade cards is probably sufficient. If North has 3=1 in spades/hearts, the hand probably plays better in hearts. With 5=7 in spades/hearts, your spade suit would be under attack from opponents forcing you to ruff the minors. It would be difficult(not necessarily impossible) to maintain control while setting up the hearts in a spade contract.
I would have opened 2H with this hand.

[Player]

Post by jogs

Post by Robert Chance

Post by Adam Lea
QJT73
KT76432
-
6

It's probably going against the field, but I would certainly have opened the South hand, either with 3H or 4H. The hand may not play that well in spades unless partner has five of them (which is decidedly unlikely), and there is every possibility that opponents will end up playing in spades themselves after a pre-empt.

4 spade cards is probably sufficient. If North has 3=1 in spades/hearts, the hand probably plays better in hearts. With 5=7 in spades/hearts, your spade suit would be under attack from opponents forcing you to ruff the minors. It would be difficult(not necessarily impossible) to maintain control while setting up the hearts in a spade contract.
I would have opened 2H with this hand.

You would open 2H with this? Not that it is likely but please, please never play with me ever. 2D Wilkosz > Pass > 4H > 1H 2ith 2H earning a big fat zero on the test!
Personally not playing 2 suited openings I would bit the bullet with 4H.

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by Player
please never play with me ever.

It's a deal.

[Robert Chance]

Post by jogs
4 spade cards is probably sufficient.

You certainly want to be in spades if partner has a void heart and four spades, but if partner has a singleton heart then the difference between the two strains may be narrower than you would think. If the defence forces you early on, it is going to be tricky setting the hearts up - you may need a couple of entries to hand to ruff the hearts good, and you still need to draw trumps and get back to hand to enjoy the hearts.

Give partner a hand like Kxxx x Jxxx Axxx, and I reckon hearts actually plays better than spades.

As soon as you give partner something better than a small singleton heart, hearts becomes an extremely attractive place to play, even opposite four spades.

[Robert Chance]

Post by jogs
4 spade cards is probably sufficient.

One more point - if you play this hand in spades, you hand is surely going down as dummy, and the right defence (forcing your hand) will be easy to find. If you pre-empt in hearts, your concealed spade suit will cause serious problems for the defence.

The more I think about it, the more I want to open 4H, even though the heart suit is not quite as strong as I would like.

[KWSchneider]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

Assuming opps are playing 12-14 notrump (else why is W not opening 1N?), the auction should have proceeded:

P (1D) P (1S) 4H AP - but since W opened 1C[?], the auction should now go:
P (1C) 1D (1S) 4H AP

E is definitely strong enough to bid 1S in both scenarios.

I would NEVER consider opening the South hand, but I would also never consider letting the opponents buy the contract for less than 4SX.

Kurt

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Adam Lea
5 card major, strong NT, 3 weak two's system.
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
N E S W
P 1C
2D* P 2H AP
*weak
My hand isn't the greatest weak jump overcall I have ever made, but I
decided that opposite a passed partner I would try and make it a little
more difficult for E/W to find their optimal major fit and contract. It
didn't quite work out like that. Partner came in with 2H which was the
final contract (I didn't think we were going anywhere else). 2H made 11
K
Q5
K86532
KQT9
865 A942
A9 J8
AQJ7 T94
AJ85 7432
QJT73
KT76432
-
6
Three other pairs bid and made 4H, and one pair was doubled in 5H
making. How do you think they got there, and where did we go wrong?

I would have called 1D, but from there it all depends on your agreements. If the opponents remain quiet, it will be difficult to get to game.