avoid game?

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of
you have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952

The short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you'd be doing very well
even to stop at the three level. (Actually 3NT would have a fair chance
if East was declarer, as the defence might well start off with Ace, King
and a third heart (or one top heart followed by a heart ducked). Good
luck getting there, though!)

But once West has made the normal opening bid of 1S, I can't see East
stopping short of 4S. I play Acol, and I'd expect the bidding to go
1S-2D; 2S-4S.

--
John Hall
"One can certainly imagine the myriad of uses
for a hand-held iguana maker"
Hobbes (the tiger, not the philosopher!)

David Goldfarb

2017-03-30 02:32:50 UTC

The short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you'd be doing very well
even to stop at the three level. (Actually 3NT would have a fair chance
if East was declarer, as the defence might well start off with Ace, King
and a third heart (or one top heart followed by a heart ducked). Good
luck getting there, though!)
But once West has made the normal opening bid of 1S, I can't see East
stopping short of 4S. I play Acol, and I'd expect the bidding to go
1S-2D; 2S-4S.

In my style of 2/1, I'd expect exactly the same. 4S is a picture jump,
showing strong spade support and strong diamonds, and no control in the
unbid suits. This beautiful depiction will allow West to realize that
the partnership is at least one level too high. :-)

If someone does manage to suggest a bidding sequence that stops at
the 2- or even 3-level, I'd like them to tell me how they would bid
this combination:

KJ982 AQ5
A53 T4
T KQJ98
A764 952

On which game is excellent.

--
David Goldfarb |"Think of me as a brief electromagnetic anomaly
***@gmail.com | who told you some true things for your own good."
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Babylon 5, "Day of the Dead"

Lorne Anderson

2017-03-30 10:10:03 UTC

Post by David Goldfarb
If someone does manage to suggest a bidding sequence that stops at
the 2- or even 3-level, I'd like them to tell me how they would bid
KJ982 AQ5
A53 T4
T KQJ98
A764 952
On which game is excellent.

Yes - that is the whole point. Any methods that stop with the original
hand will miss boat loads of good games on other layouts.

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2017-03-30 13:59:52 UTC

The short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you'd be doing very well
even to stop at the three level. (Actually 3NT would have a fair chance
if East was declarer, as the defence might well start off with Ace, King
and a third heart (or one top heart followed by a heart ducked). Good
luck getting there, though!)
But once West has made the normal opening bid of 1S, I can't see East
stopping short of 4S. I play Acol, and I'd expect the bidding to go
1S-2D; 2S-4S.

In my style of 2/1, I'd expect exactly the same. 4S is a picture jump,
showing strong spade support and strong diamonds, and no control in the
unbid suits. This beautiful depiction will allow West to realize that
the partnership is at least one level too high. :-)
If someone does manage to suggest a bidding sequence that stops at
the 2- or even 3-level, I'd like them to tell me how they would bid
KJ982 AQ5
A53 T4
T KQJ98
A764 952
On which game is excellent.
--
David Goldfarb |"Think of me as a brief electromagnetic anomaly

This dealer's hand is far better than the original. CCCC is 14.35, versus an original 11.60. Edgar Kaplan would not have opened the original. I guess he was right.

Carl

f***@googlemail.com

2017-03-30 17:47:39 UTC

Post by ***@verizon.net

The short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you'd be doing very well
even to stop at the three level. (Actually 3NT would have a fair chance
if East was declarer, as the defence might well start off with Ace, King
and a third heart (or one top heart followed by a heart ducked). Good
luck getting there, though!)
But once West has made the normal opening bid of 1S, I can't see East
stopping short of 4S. I play Acol, and I'd expect the bidding to go
1S-2D; 2S-4S.

In my style of 2/1, I'd expect exactly the same. 4S is a picture jump,
showing strong spade support and strong diamonds, and no control in the
unbid suits. This beautiful depiction will allow West to realize that
the partnership is at least one level too high. :-)
If someone does manage to suggest a bidding sequence that stops at
the 2- or even 3-level, I'd like them to tell me how they would bid
KJ982 AQ5
A53 T4
T KQJ98
A764 952
On which game is excellent.
--
David Goldfarb |"Think of me as a brief electromagnetic anomaly

This dealer's hand is far better than the original. CCCC is 14.35, versus an original 11.60. Edgar Kaplan would not have opened the original. I guess he was right.
Carl

Well yes, but give responder the - much worse -

AQx
Kxx
Jxxx
Q9x

and game will make much of the time they don't mind their club ruff on the go

a***@hotmail.com

2017-04-13 17:04:08 UTC

The short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you'd be doing very well
even to stop at the three level. (Actually 3NT would have a fair chance
if East was declarer, as the defence might well start off with Ace, King
and a third heart (or one top heart followed by a heart ducked). Good
luck getting there, though!)
But once West has made the normal opening bid of 1S, I can't see East
stopping short of 4S. I play Acol, and I'd expect the bidding to go
1S-2D; 2S-4S.

In my style of 2/1, I'd expect exactly the same. 4S is a picture jump,
showing strong spade support and strong diamonds, and no control in the
unbid suits. This beautiful depiction will allow West to realize that
the partnership is at least one level too high. :-)
If someone does manage to suggest a bidding sequence that stops at
the 2- or even 3-level, I'd like them to tell me how they would bid
KJ982 AQ5
A53 T4
T KQJ98
A764 952
On which game is excellent.
--
David Goldfarb |"Think of me as a brief electromagnetic anomaly

Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.

KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952

Once you ignore as a possibility intervention, Churchill's method would expect to produce:
P-1D-1S-2S-3S-P

P= non starting hand
1D= 4+Ds, 2.5+QT if balanced
1S= 4+Ss, 1.5+QT
2S= minimum starting hand, spade support
3S= don't plan on anything outside but have interest opposite a minimum
P = hope we aren't too high

Comments
The method does not treat the west cards as starting hand because of even unbalanced, 1.5 QT does not provide enough defense for the one level, the stiff DA is a defect, not an advantage. Intentionally opening these cards would be a matter of tactical or strategic judgment, not method.

The trick taking power of the pointed east cards deflect from the defect of balance. 1D is clearly systemic while 1N would be inappropriate due to the powerful concentration in two suits precluding values in the other suits. When west does not change suits it suggests that he does not have outside control; the inference is that west's strength are in the pointy suits. In other words, if west is on lead there will be good play for ten tricks in spades. If north is on lead there will be good play for eight tricks.

That for this hand it takes west's 3S call for the partnership to determine the limit of the cards is 2S is a characteristic of the method. Others have suggested that their methods will carry on to 4S; the important distinction being they have no inkling before seeing dummy how many tricks to expect while I do.

KJ982 AQ5
A53 T4
T KQJ98
A764 952

1S= 4+S, 2.5+QT when balanced
2D= 5+D, 1.5+QT
2S= min 5+S
4S= sorry you're min

axman

Eddie Grove

2017-04-28 05:21:12 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove

The short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you'd be doing very well
even to stop at the three level. (Actually 3NT would have a fair chance
if East was declarer, as the defence might well start off with Ace, King
and a third heart (or one top heart followed by a heart ducked). Good
luck getting there, though!)
But once West has made the normal opening bid of 1S, I can't see East
stopping short of 4S. I play Acol, and I'd expect the bidding to go
1S-2D; 2S-4S.

Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
P-1D-1S-2S-3S-P

The conversation seems to have died down now. The only way people have
suggested avoiding game is not to open with the west hand.

I used to be one of those people who devalued stiff aces. I went to a
sectional way back when, and over dinner got together with other people
I knew to go over the boards, one of whom may be familiar to you.
I'd missed a game because I failed to open because I had a stiff ace.
Eric Leong had a 15 to 20 second belly laugh at me for not opening the
hand. When Eric calls you out for not opening, it's time to reconsider.

Post by Eddie Grove
KJ982 AQ5
A53 T4
T KQJ98
A764 952
1S= 4+S, 2.5+QT when balanced
2D= 5+D, 1.5+QT
2S= min 5+S
4S= sorry you're min

Sure, that works on those hands, but I assume the same bidding for

KJ982 AQ5
KJ5 T4
2 KQJ98
A764 952

Down on a likely club lead. I am not complaining about the method here.
I get to game on this one too, and have been known to open with less.

Eddie

Charles Brenner

2017-04-29 15:36:34 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove

The short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you'd be doing very well
even to stop at the three level. (Actually 3NT would have a fair chance
if East was declarer, as the defence might well start off with Ace, King
and a third heart (or one top heart followed by a heart ducked). Good
luck getting there, though!)
But once West has made the normal opening bid of 1S, I can't see East
stopping short of 4S. I play Acol, and I'd expect the bidding to go
1S-2D; 2S-4S.

Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
P-1D-1S-2S-3S-P

The conversation seems to have died down now. The only way people have
suggested avoiding game is not to open with the west hand.

I'll respond to this lower bar, and for "favorite system" I sneak in a funny system idea that I've been toying with, mostly privately, for a long time. In my system the opening bid concept is, instead of showing length, to indicate shortness; instead of preparedness, contrarianism & preemption. In short, with the West KJxxx,QJx,A,J10xx open 1H showing at least 3 hearts and at most 2 diamonds. If responder inconsiderately bids 2D, it's non-forcing & we pass -- that's the alternative to preparedness. Therefore responder bids the ranking suit which promises only 3 cards (has to to cater for opener having 5). So:
1H(3+) 1S(3+)
2S(4-5 cards)
I cannot expect responder to pass here, but perhaps warned by the possible diamond singleton or void opposite, bids only 2NT. West is not tempted to bid more than 3S (pass seems like hindsight, but maybe) and conceivably we stop there.

Co Wiersma

2017-03-29 21:00:36 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

I do not see any way to avoid bidding 4S
Maybe a strong club system could?

Co Wiersma

p***@infi.net

2017-03-29 21:45:11 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

No. West has an obvious opening bid, East has an obvious game force with support. The two hands happen not to fit well -- too much wastage in diamonds.

Adam Lea

2017-03-29 22:21:25 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

No, my auction would go like John's, 1S-2D: 2S-4S. The problem is the
hands match very badly, with loads of wasted values in diamonds, and no
needed values in the rounded suits which coincidentally have no ruffing
potential. I wouldn't mind betting that at my local club, at least one
pair would be allowed to make it.

Player

2017-03-30 00:36:16 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

No. Who knows, you may have got a S or D lead.

p***@gmail.com

2017-03-30 17:14:47 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

Not a chance. Game all the way.

t***@att.net

2017-03-30 22:35:54 UTC

Of course the canapé version goes:

1S - 2D
2S - 4S

ending in the same contract as everyone else. Probably indicating a Heart or Club lead too.

John Hall

2017-03-31 09:38:44 UTC

Post by t***@att.net
1S - 2D
2S - 4S
ending in the same contract as everyone else. Probably indicating a Heart or Club lead too.

Wouldn't the canape version go

1C-1D
1S-4S

Assuming that 1S would show five. If not then responder could bid a FSF
2H. You'd still probably finish in 4S, though.

(Though it's possible that LHO would have enough to interpose 1H over
1C, which might change things.)

--
John Hall
"One can certainly imagine the myriad of uses
for a hand-held iguana maker"
Hobbes (the tiger, not the philosopher!)

smn

2017-03-31 08:20:31 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

Hmm . When I look at this hand I see 1.5 quick tricks -not good for an opening hand .12hcp . Hardy would say add one for the 5th spade and also having the spades is positive . You could take the view -"I never open with less than 2 quick tricks . If you pass maybe there will be interference giving information .If not partner will open 3rd hand with 1d and you (west ) bids 1s and east with a ruffing value and good spades would raise to 2s (if your system allows it -west might have 4 spades from east's view ) .I guess west bids 3c (almost certainly showing 5-4 shape and east retreats to 3s -p-p-p . I could see doing this on a good day . smn

Player

2017-03-31 10:25:33 UTC

Smn sorry but this comment is a lol.

t***@att.net

2017-03-31 13:11:58 UTC

In the canapé approach the hand isn't quite strong enough to open 1C. The problem is that over 1C-1NT a 2S bid would show a trick better than minimum. It's a common canapé problem. The real loss in canapé is with 5S and 4H; it's not easy to show both suits when Opener is weak. On the other hands, with 4S+5H or 4S+5m or 4H+5M, the canapé approach wins. However, it is big weakness. I suppose one could define 1x-1N-2S as non-reverse; this is probably OK as Responders weak preference for the long suit is a Pass.

Some hands are too weak to show both suits. Another possibility would be to use 2S as a reverse Flannery showing 5S and 4H; that does preclude using 2D elsewhere.

John Hall

2017-03-31 15:32:07 UTC

Post by t***@att.net
In the canapé approach the hand isn't quite strong enough to open 1C.
The problem is that over 1C-1NT a 2S bid would show a trick better than
minimum. It's a common canapé problem. The real loss in canapé is with
5S and 4H; it's not easy to show both suits when Opener is weak. On the
other hands, with 4S+5H or 4S+5m or 4H+5M, the canapé approach wins.
However, it is big weakness. I suppose one could define 1x-1N-2S as
non-reverse; this is probably OK as Responders weak preference for the
long suit is a Pass.
Some hands are too weak to show both suits. Another possibility would
be to use 2S as a reverse Flannery showing 5S and 4H; that does
preclude using 2D elsewhere.

Thanks for the explanation.

--
John Hall
"One can certainly imagine the myriad of uses
for a hand-held iguana maker"
Hobbes (the tiger, not the philosopher!)

Steve Willner

2017-04-01 00:55:50 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952

If you play very sound opening one-bids -- perhaps EHAA or Fantunes --
West would open 2S, and East would pass. If you play very light opening
bids, East might invite rather than force to game. Other than those
sorts of systems, I agree with everyone else that reaching game is
inevitable.

judyorcarl@verizon.net

2017-04-02 14:22:44 UTC

Post by Steve Willner

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952

I don't agree that it is symptomatic of "very sound" openings to believe that the posted hand does not qualify.

It is simply a matter of discounting singleton honors.

Carl

Kenny McCormack

2017-04-03 10:14:12 UTC

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Steve Willner

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952

I don't agree that it is symptomatic of "very sound" openings to believe
that the posted hand does not qualify.
It is simply a matter of discounting singleton honors.

And all the quacks.

I would never open the west hand above when playing with a random partner
(e.g., online). Way too risky.

--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Rorschach

Douglas Newlands

2017-04-03 12:34:58 UTC

Post by Kenny McCormack

Post by ***@verizon.net

Post by Steve Willner

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952

I don't agree that it is symptomatic of "very sound" openings to believe
that the posted hand does not qualify.
It is simply a matter of discounting singleton honors.

And all the quacks.
I would never open the west hand above when playing with a random partner
(e.g., online). Way too risky.

Maybe but how do you catch up on the next round when
you have no forcing bid?
I know it may be fine on this hand but it won't be in general.

doug

Kenny McCormack

2017-04-03 13:07:50 UTC

In article <obtfc0$cog$***@douglasnewlands.eternal-september.org>,
Douglas Newlands <***@gmail.com> wrote:
...

Post by Douglas Newlands
Maybe but how do you catch up on the next round when
you have no forcing bid?
I know it may be fine on this hand but it won't be in general.

When you're playing online, there is never any need to "catch up".

The basic assumption behind bidding with online partners is that they
(i.e., CHO) will be doing enough bidding for himself, for you, and for the
next 3 tables on either side.

Sandy Barnes

2017-04-21 06:24:52 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

Pass - 1D
1S - Pass

Why pass the West hand? Stiff ace is a weak holding, making the defense even weaker than it is with 1.5 QT. Put the ace with length, it is an opener, even with the weak defense, due to the spade suit playing strength.

Kenny McCormack

2017-04-21 23:15:22 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

Pass - 1D
1S - Pass
Why pass the West hand? Stiff ace is a weak holding, making the defense
even weaker than it is with 1.5 QT. Put the ace with length, it is an
opener, even with the weak defense, due to the spade suit playing
strength.

I agree. But the whole point of this thread is that if you can bring
yourself to pass (i.e., not open) the West hand, then you will do well on
this hand. If your system or personal preferences require you to open the
West hand, you will almost certainly get too high.

As I pointed out, if playing online, it is a no-brainer (to pass).

--
If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the
computer, a Rolls-Royce today would cost $100, get a million miles to
the gallon, and explode once every few weeks, killing everyone inside.

Player

2017-04-22 01:59:55 UTC

Nonsense Kenny. This is an opening bid. Seriously I lol at the passers. Why do you always reduce everything to the lowest common denominator of playing online with a random pickup, probably from one of two countries where everyone is an expert?

Player

2017-04-22 02:05:50 UTC

Further you have not responded to Douggie's post. How are you going to catch up? Give east even a slightly stronger hand and pass to a 1s response is not unreasonable. Bid 2s? No jose, after passing this shows a fsj. Raise a 1nt rebid to 2? Even witj a better hand I am passing as you cannot hold this hand.

Sandy Barnes

2017-04-22 07:23:30 UTC

Post by Player
Further you have not responded to Douggie's post. How are you going to catch up? Give east even a slightly stronger hand and pass to a 1s response is not unreasonable. Bid 2s? No jose, after passing this shows a fsj. Raise a 1nt rebid to 2? Even witj a better hand I am passing as you cannot hold this hand.

Why are you worried about "catching up"? By limiting your hand value with an original pass, you are in a better position to show your values in a later auction. Partner will only take another call if he has full values for his opening bid. Your problem is you think that you have denied values with a pass, not limited them.

Player

2017-04-23 07:44:06 UTC

"you are in a better position to show your values in a later auction."
How?
"Partner will only take another call if he has full values for his opening bid."
Nonsense. With a 2 suiter pd will bid the second suit even with an 11/12 count. With a 6 carder, pd will rebid his suit.

Lorne Anderson

2017-04-23 10:21:44 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952
Eddie

Pass - 1D
1S - Pass
Why pass the West hand? Stiff ace is a weak holding, making the defense even weaker than it is with 1.5 QT. Put the ace with length, it is an opener, even with the weak defense, due to the spade suit playing strength.

and with this weaker hand you miss a nearly cold game:

KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A 952
JT64 KQ985

Come to think of it, you may even pass it out !

Bruce Evans

2017-04-23 11:49:01 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove
I bid to a hopeless game. Playing your favorite system, would any of you
have managed to stop at the two level?
Pairs, neither vul, uncontested, W deals.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A KQJ98
JT64 952

It's too convenient that the opponents don't bid. They make 2H quite
often, so should be bidding 3H a little more often if you find a cosy 2S
or 2NT. 2S should lose anway. 2NT is cold, but 2S isn't. 2NT always
scores better than 2S. Against 3HX, you have at most 2S 1H and 3D for
down 2, but a singleton spade or doubleton diamond gives play for down 1.
3NT is difficult to defend, at least if West bids clubs. 2S is easy
to defend, sometimes for down 1, especially if West doesn't bid clubs.

Post by Sandy Barnes
Pass - 1D
1S - Pass

Surely the opponents can find a bid over this. Then you can pass again
and sit there misdefending, or bid the inferior 2S, and never get near
2NT, and guess wrong again over 3H.

Note that the opponents do OK taking this out even though you have
enough schmoints to make 3NT on misdefense. Their bidding won't help
you find 2/3NT later.

Post by Sandy Barnes
Why pass the West hand? Stiff ace is a weak holding, making the

defense even weaker than it is with 1.5 QT. Put the ace with length, it
is an opener, even with the weak defense, due to the spade suit playing
strength.
KJ982 AQ5
QJ5 T4
A 952
JT64 KQ985
Come to think of it, you may even pass it out !

Actually, it is a bad game. Better pass it out :-) It needs 2-2 clubs
which is 41%. It is Unauthorized Information that the opponents will not
contest so clubs are more likely to break than a priori.

In a weak matchpoint field, it might be right to bid conservatively to
go plus. Lots of bidding theory is based on finding games at imps when
going down often is not a problem. This doesn't apply in weak matchpoint
fields. In not so weak matchpoint fields, you need to find NT more often
so should have methods to find it, but plus in 2S is good enough in a weak
field.

A colder game with low needs club shortness with no wastage in East. E.g.,
AQxx Kxxx xxx xx. It needs the 4th spade. At imps, the 4th spade doesn't
need to be the Q, and a 5th spade would make game cold. East might be
happy to pass with Axxx Kxxx xxx xx or Axxxx Kxxx xx xx or Qxxxx Kxx xxxx x.
But these perfect fitting hands are unlikely, so it doesn't matter much that
conservative bidding misses games with them.

Bruce

Player

2017-04-23 13:12:46 UTC

I have missed your "logic" Bruce. You ignore ak of h and stiff c a in one hand. You ignore the highly likely D lead. Lorne's game is one I want to be in every day of the week.

Sandy Barnes

2017-04-30 19:14:32 UTC

Post by Eddie Grove