Discussion:
Bidding problem
(too old to reply)
Kenny McCormack
2017-11-19 15:50:50 UTC
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North dealer, EW vul. You, South, hold:

Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx

North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?

Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
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Mick Heins
2017-11-19 19:06:54 UTC
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Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
At this vul partner could have a pretty bad hand. Pass, at any form
of scoring. If I by some miracle miss a game, it is not vul.
Post by Kenny McCormack
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
Pass again. Double and lead a trump if by some miracle they bid 4S.
--
Mickey

Find the grain of truth in criticism, chew it, and swallow
it. -- anonymous
Kenny McCormack
2018-06-05 14:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mick Heins
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
At this vul partner could have a pretty bad hand. Pass, at any form
of scoring. If I by some miracle miss a game, it is not vul.
I think pass is the indicated action, but I wonder how many people could
steel themselves to do it in real life. I mean, it takes so little in
partners hand to make 3N. Spade queen and one other card might be enough.

There's also a lot to be said for just bidding 3N anyway. It will almost
certainly shut out the opps and in the unlikely event they double, you can
now run to 4C.
Post by Mick Heins
Post by Kenny McCormack
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
Pass again. Double and lead a trump if by some miracle they bid 4S.
OK. So you do double 4S. That's good to hear.
--
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Douglas Newlands
2018-06-06 00:49:33 UTC
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Post by Kenny McCormack
Post by Mick Heins
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
At this vul partner could have a pretty bad hand. Pass, at any form
of scoring. If I by some miracle miss a game, it is not vul.
I think pass is the indicated action, but I wonder how many people could
steel themselves to do it in real life. I mean, it takes so little in
partners hand to make 3N. Spade queen and one other card might be enough.
Never 3NT.
Partner says he has 6 tricks in hearts and I have 4.
Seems like a 4H bid. Certainly at teams.

doug
Post by Kenny McCormack
There's also a lot to be said for just bidding 3N anyway. It will almost
certainly shut out the opps and in the unlikely event they double, you can
now run to 4C.
Post by Mick Heins
Post by Kenny McCormack
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
Pass again. Double and lead a trump if by some miracle they bid 4S.
OK. So you do double 4S. That's good to hear.
ais523
2018-06-06 01:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Newlands
Post by Kenny McCormack
Post by Mick Heins
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
At this vul partner could have a pretty bad hand. Pass, at any form
of scoring. If I by some miracle miss a game, it is not vul.
I think pass is the indicated action, but I wonder how many people could
steel themselves to do it in real life. I mean, it takes so little in
partners hand to make 3N. Spade queen and one other card might be enough.
Never 3NT.
Partner says he has 6 tricks in hearts and I have 4.
Seems like a 4H bid. Certainly at teams.
I agree with you. It's very unlikely that North has more than one entry
to the hearts via any mechanism other than ruffing, whereas South's hand
has plenty of entries in the minors. So North's hand is likely to only
be useful if the trump suit is hearts (or possibly if North has solid
hearts with an outside A or KQ, but that's not common for a 3H bid).
--
ais523
Kenny McCormack
2018-06-06 01:38:28 UTC
Permalink
In article <pf7cgm$58k$***@dont-email.me>, ais523 <***@nethack4.org> wrote:
...
Post by ais523
I agree with you. It's very unlikely that North has more than one entry
to the hearts via any mechanism other than ruffing, whereas South's hand
has plenty of entries in the minors. So North's hand is likely to only
be useful if the trump suit is hearts (or possibly if North has solid
hearts with an outside A or KQ, but that's not common for a 3H bid).
Let's get serious. You're never going to bid 4H.
Remember the vulnerability.

(If you are making 3N) You plan to make 3N without touching the hearts.

But as I said, bidding 3N works as a sort of pseudo-psyche.
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Douglas Newlands
2018-06-06 01:44:38 UTC
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Post by Kenny McCormack
...
Post by ais523
I agree with you. It's very unlikely that North has more than one entry
to the hearts via any mechanism other than ruffing, whereas South's hand
has plenty of entries in the minors. So North's hand is likely to only
be useful if the trump suit is hearts (or possibly if North has solid
hearts with an outside A or KQ, but that's not common for a 3H bid).
Let's get serious. You're never going to bid 4H.
Why do you assert that one shouldn't bid it?
I said why I thought one should bid it.
Post by Kenny McCormack
Remember the vulnerability.
What's the relevance of that?
Post by Kenny McCormack
(If you are making 3N) You plan to make 3N without touching the hearts.
Which 9 tricks do think you can see?
I see 7 if the clubs are kind but that's all
Post by Kenny McCormack
But as I said, bidding 3N works as a sort of pseudo-psyche.
What???
Will in New Haven
2017-11-19 22:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
I would pass in both cases. If they reach game, I'll double.
--
Will in Pompano
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/218159/Glory-Road-Roleplay-Core-Rules
Dave Flower
2017-11-19 22:22:24 UTC
Permalink
I'm with the passers on this hand. One of my golden rules is if you have a misfit, pass, preferably on the previous round of bidding!

Dave Flower
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
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John Hall
2017-11-20 10:43:49 UTC
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Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
I too am with the passers. Yes, partner could have a hand where we can
make 3NT or 5C, but it must be odds against.
--
John Hall "George the Third
Ought never to have occurred.
One can only wonder
At so grotesque a blunder." E.C.Bentley (1875-1956)
Charles Brenner
2017-11-23 07:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
I'm not confident we have no better spot, but I am confident that the odds are against finding it. When the poet Milton said (approximately) "They also serve who pass," I think he had this situation in mind.
Dave Flower
2018-06-06 07:22:46 UTC
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Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
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Give partner a typical hand:

x x
K Q J 10 x x x
x x
x x

and 4H is likely to fail. (Assume three rounds of spades, declarer trumps the third round, and knocks out the trump ace. Now the defenders should have no difficulty in finding a diamond switch.

Dave Flower
Mick Heins
2018-06-06 12:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
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x x
K Q J 10 x x x
x x
x x
and 4H is likely to fail. (Assume three rounds of spades, declarer
trumps the third round, and knocks out the trump ace. Now the
defenders should have no difficulty in finding a diamond switch.
Agree. And white vs. red, there is no reason to expect partner to have
nearly that good a hand, which is a classic equal preempt.

As I said, it is possible game will make. But it is not odds on, and
it is not vulnerable. The aim should be a plus score.
--
Mickey

There's nothing sweeter than life nor more precious than time.
-- Barney
judyorcarl@verizon.net
2018-06-06 12:23:26 UTC
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Post by Dave Flower
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
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x x
K Q J 10 x x x
x x
x x
and 4H is likely to fail. (Assume three rounds of spades, declarer trumps the third round, and knocks out the trump ace. Now the defenders should have no difficulty in finding a diamond switch.
Dave Flower
That is not a typical 3H opening at favorable vul.

In general: Partner's nominal estimate of 6 playing tricks is supposed to be aggressive. Definitely ignoring the possibility of heart void in dummy.

Carl
Mick Heins
2018-06-06 12:29:04 UTC
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Post by ***@verizon.net
Post by Dave Flower
Post by Kenny McCormack
Jx
-
AJxxx
AKQxxx
North opens 3H, next hand passes, your call?
Now, say East says 3S (over 3H). Your call?
--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
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x x
K Q J 10 x x x
x x
x x
and 4H is likely to fail. (Assume three rounds of spades, declarer trumps the third round, and knocks out the trump ace. Now the defenders should have no difficulty in finding a diamond switch.
Dave Flower
That is not a typical 3H opening at favorable vul.
In general: Partner's nominal estimate of 6 playing tricks is
supposed to be aggressive. Definitely ignoring the possibility of
heart void in dummy.
The rule of 2 and 3 is history. The rule is more the rule of 2,3,4, and 5. As dealer
white vs. red, this hand:

xx
QTxxxxx
x
xxx

would be a three heart bid by nearly 100% of experts. In third chair, you could subtract
a heart and well over half would bid 3H.
--
Mickey

Those who bring sunshine into the lives of others
cannot keep it from themselves. -- James Barrie
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