Opponent Bid My Suit

[j***@gmail.com]

My RHO opened one club and I had a strong club suit. Turns out he was bidding a short club and only had three of them. I wanted to bid clubs but couldn't because it would be interpreted as a cue bid rather than a legitimate club holding. How can I communicate my good holding in clubs?

[Player]

Post by j***@gmail.com
My RHO opened one club and I had a strong club suit. Turns out he was bidding a short club and only had three of them. I wanted to bid clubs but couldn't because it would be interpreted as a cue bid rather than a legitimate club holding. How can I communicate my good holding in clubs?

Many play that (1C) 2C is natural.

[Douglas Newlands]

Post by Player

Post by j***@gmail.com
My RHO opened one club and I had a strong club suit. Turns out he was bidding a short club and only had three of them. I wanted to bid clubs but couldn't because it would be interpreted as a cue bid rather than a legitimate club holding. How can I communicate my good holding in clubs?

Many play that (1C) 2C is natural.

and that
(1C) 2D
and
(1D) 2D both show the majors.

doug

[Co Wiersma]

Post by j***@gmail.com
My RHO opened one club and I had a strong club suit. Turns out he was bidding a short club and only had three of them. I wanted to bid clubs but couldn't because it would be interpreted as a cue bid rather than a legitimate club holding. How can I communicate my good holding in clubs?

I have the agreement that if opponents play clubs as 2+ , 2C is natural,
but if 1C is 3+ or 4+ , then 2C is for the majors

That means that if opponents play 1C as 3+, I will have to pass with a
long club suit.
Cant have them all!

Co Wiersma

[Lorne Anderson]

Post by j***@gmail.com
My RHO opened one club and I had a strong club suit. Turns out he was bidding a short club and only had three of them. I wanted to bid clubs but couldn't because it would be interpreted as a cue bid rather than a legitimate club holding. How can I communicate my good holding in clubs?

Pass initially then bid 2C next round.

Since it is bad bridge to pass and then bid after the oppo have
exchanged enough info to know what to do you can never have a hand that
wants to show both majors (if that is what a cue means for you) after
passing - you show it immediately and hope partner can raise one suit
and make life difficult for them.

The alterntive that others suggest works if you do not mind losing a
weak 2D overcall.

[Adam Lea]

Post by Lorne Anderson
Since it is bad bridge to pass and then bid after the oppo have
exchanged enough info to know what to do you can never have a hand that
wants to show both majors (if that is what a cue means for you) after
passing - you show it immediately and hope partner can raise one suit
and make life difficult for them.

I assume with the first sentence, you are referring specifically to this
case and not the general case. In the case where the opponents bid and
single raise a suit before passing, it can be desirable to come in
rather than pass out, as the opponents have told you they have no more
than 23 HCP between them, which means you know you have close to half
the HCP strength between you and your partner, and a high chance of a
fit. It is bad bridge (at MPs anyway) to let the opponents play in a
suit fit at the two level if your side has a fit and similar playing
strength.

[Lorne Anderson]

Post by Adam Lea

Post by Lorne Anderson
Since it is bad bridge to pass and then bid after the oppo have
exchanged enough info to know what to do you can never have a hand that
wants to show both majors (if that is what a cue means for you) after
passing - you show it immediately and hope partner can raise one suit
and make life difficult for them.

I assume with the first sentence, you are referring specifically to this
case and not the general case. In the case where the opponents bid and
single raise a suit before passing, it can be desirable to come in
rather than pass out, as the opponents have told you they have no more
than 23 HCP between them, which means you know you have close to half
the HCP strength between you and your partner, and a high chance of a
fit. It is bad bridge (at MPs anyway) to let the opponents play in a
suit fit at the two level if your side has a fit and similar playing
strength.

Yes, protective bids when the oppo pass it out at a low level are an
entirely different matter. I am refering here to a situation where the
auction is still live.

[smn]

Post by j***@gmail.com
My RHO opened one club and I had a strong club suit. Turns out he was bidding a short club and only had three of them. I wanted to bid clubs but couldn't because it would be interpreted as a cue bid rather than a legitimate club holding. How can I communicate my good holding in clubs?

opening 1c with 3 clubs is standard and not a short club although 4 or 5 clubs in opener's hand is more probable .What you could do is pass once and bid clubs on your next bid if possible ,this shows long clubs if your partner hasn't entered - if he has then it might be a cue bid asking partner to bid no trump with a stopper . Also in standard bidding , 3c directly over 1c would show clubs although some play 2c and 3c both cuebids -2c usualy both majors smn

[Lorne Anderson]

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

[Player]

Post by Lorne Anderson

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

I think in the rest of the world as well.

[smn]

Post by Player

Post by Lorne Anderson

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

I think in the rest of the world as well.

In ACBl thats not standard ,I'm sure it requires an alert and I've never seen it used on the US west coast . smn

[David Goldfarb]

Post by smn

Post by Player

Post by Lorne Anderson

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

I think in the rest of the world as well.

In ACBl thats not standard ,I'm sure it requires an alert and I've never
seen it used on the US west coast . smn

Overcalling 1 of a major with 3 of that major with a long solid minor,
asking partner for a stopper, is standard in the ACBL, does not require
an alert, and I've seen it used plenty of times, including on the west
coast. 1C-3C as a stopper ask is no more than an extension of the
same principle.

[Co Wiersma]

Post by David Goldfarb

Post by smn

Post by Player

Post by Lorne Anderson

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

I think in the rest of the world as well.

In ACBl thats not standard ,I'm sure it requires an alert and I've never
seen it used on the US west coast . smn

Overcalling 1 of a major with 3 of that major with a long solid minor,
asking partner for a stopper, is standard in the ACBL, does not require
an alert, and I've seen it used plenty of times, including on the west
coast. 1C-3C as a stopper ask is no more than an extension of the
same principle.

Now I am confused.
Is not the alert meant to say that the bid is artificial?
So should not a 3C bid be alerted if it means something different then
"clubs" ?

Co Wiersma

[smn]

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by David Goldfarb

Post by smn

Post by Player

Post by Lorne Anderson

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

I think in the rest of the world as well.

In ACBl thats not standard ,I'm sure it requires an alert and I've never
seen it used on the US west coast . smn

Overcalling 1 of a major with 3 of that major with a long solid minor,
asking partner for a stopper, is standard in the ACBL, does not require
an alert, and I've seen it used plenty of times, including on the west
coast. 1C-3C as a stopper ask is no more than an extension of the
same principle.

Now I am confused.
Is not the alert meant to say that the bid is artificial?
So should not a 3C bid be alerted if it means something different then
"clubs" ?
Co Wiersma

Hi all . It's complicated .I did find 1c-(3c) in a book by Marshall Miles who says it shows long clubs and I would guess this is the default standard (no alert -opponents have to ask ) . But if you play 1c-(3c) as a cue bid asking for partner to bid notrump with a club stopper (and this rarely makes sense unless cue bidder has long diamonds so you might as sell play that it shows long diamonds) then it's not alerted because NO CUE BId is alertable in ACBL . So I think 1) It's a good idea to ask before you bid something other then pass and 2) Definitely discuss it with partner -in fact put it in an empty line under overcall's on your convention card card . In fact I played tonight with a regular very good partner ,and I asked him how we are playing it and he said without hesitation ,long clubs . I was happy with that and didn't discuss the alternative , Regards ,smn

[p***@infi.net]

Post by smn

Post by Co Wiersma

Post by David Goldfarb

Post by smn

Post by Player

Post by Lorne Anderson

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

I think in the rest of the world as well.

In ACBl thats not standard ,I'm sure it requires an alert and I've never
seen it used on the US west coast . smn

Overcalling 1 of a major with 3 of that major with a long solid minor,
asking partner for a stopper, is standard in the ACBL, does not require
an alert, and I've seen it used plenty of times, including on the west
coast. 1C-3C as a stopper ask is no more than an extension of the
same principle.

Now I am confused.
Is not the alert meant to say that the bid is artificial?
So should not a 3C bid be alerted if it means something different then
"clubs" ?
Co Wiersma

Hi all . It's complicated .I did find 1c-(3c) in a book by Marshall Miles who says it shows long clubs and I would guess this is the default standard (no alert -opponents have to ask ) . But if you play 1c-(3c) as a cue bid asking for partner to bid notrump with a club stopper (and this rarely makes sense unless cue bidder has long diamonds so you might as sell play that it shows long diamonds) then it's not alerted because NO CUE BId is alertable in ACBL . So I think 1) It's a good idea to ask before you bid something other then pass and 2) Definitely discuss it with partner -in fact put it in an empty line under overcall's on your convention card card . In fact I played tonight with a regular very good partner ,and I asked him how we are playing it and he said without hesitation ,long clubs . I was happy with that and didn't discuss the alternative , Regards ,smn

I had a solid 8 card minor with a side Ace and tried (1H)-3H as a visitor at a club in Florida. Partner, the director, passed!

[Steve Willner]

Post by Co Wiersma
Is not the alert meant to say that the bid is artificial?

That depends on where you play. Alerting is a matter of local
regulation. "Alert if artificial" is generally right in the EBU, for
example, but I'm not sure what their rules say about cue bids. If you
tell me the Netherlands is the same, I'll believe you.

For the ACBL, the alert documents on the ACBL web site have recently
changed, and I can't tell what the alerting rules for cue bids are now.
In the past, cue bids were not alertable if they showed other suits or
general strength (unless the meaning was "highly unusual and
unexpected") but were alertable if natural bids in the suit. Present
usage at the table seems oblivious to the changed documents.

I don't know about other jurisdictions.

[Adam Lea]

Post by Lorne Anderson

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

Maybe in expert circles, I've never seen this in typical UK club bridge.

[Co Wiersma]

Post by Adam Lea

Post by Lorne Anderson

Also in standard bidding, 3c directly over 1c would show clubs

In the UK this shows a long solid diamond suit with some scattered
values in the majors and asks partner to bid 3N with a club stop and at
least 1 diamond.

Maybe in expert circles, I've never seen this in typical UK club bridge.

The same is no doubt true for most things that people here advice you
And should be as a to complicated system hinders you from playing your
best bridge

Tbh I think that the agreement that
{a jumpcuebid directly over opening asks partner to bid 3NT with a stop}
is a simple enough agreement that does not intervene with the rest of
your bidding system
But it comes up so very seldom that its probably no good to introduce in
typical club bridge for that reason

Co Wiersma