What do you do here?

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

MPs, game all

You hold as North AK KJT32 AK 8763.

Partner puts a pass card down, then is informed that West was the dealer. Fortunately East was the director and applied the rule which means she retracts the pass card but has to pass when it is her turn to bid. West opens 1D.

N E S W
1D
?

Given that your partner is forced to pass on the first round of the auction, what do you do?

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
Partner puts a pass card down, then is informed that West was
the dealer. Fortunately East was the director and applied the
rule which means she retracts the pass card but has to pass
when it is her turn to bid.

Unfortunately that is not the correct ruling. See law 30:

http://www.worldbridge.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2017LawsofDuplicateBridge-paginated.pdf

The fact that South has a pass hand is UI for North. Other than
that he is not restricted.
If South in his turn can make a comparable call (easy: just
pass), there is no further rectification, and the UI-block is
lifted.
If South does not make a comparable call, North must pass at his
subsequent turn. The retracted bid is still UI for North (and
lead restrictions may apply if EW wins the auction).
So we do not know what South chooses to bid.


PS. The ruling would have been correct three years ago. Today we
have the 2017 law.

[ais523]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
MPs, game all
You hold as North AK KJT32 AK 8763.
Partner puts a pass card down, then is informed that West was the
dealer. Fortunately East was the director and applied the rule which
means she retracts the pass card but has to pass when it is her turn
to bid. West opens 1D.
N E S W
1D
?
Given that your partner is forced to pass on the first round of the
auction, what do you do?

Call another director, if you can. N has UI (thus mustn't, e.g.,
underbid due to the pass), and S is forced to make a bid that shows a
hand that would pass on opening bid or else bar N from the auction, but
S isn't forced to pass outright. The relevant Laws are 16C2 restricting
N and 30B1 restricting S.

If you have to go with the ruling given, though, it's clearly a pure
guess. I guess 4H, but I wouldn't criticise someone for guessing 3NT or
(as it's matchpoints) 1H. (1H is awkward for the opponents as they have
the choice of passing it out, with 1H almost certainly making and a
partscore quite possibly being the limit of the hand, or else bidding
something and letting your partnership back into the auction.)

[a***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by ais523

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
MPs, game all
You hold as North AK KJT32 AK 8763.
Partner puts a pass card down, then is informed that West was the
dealer. Fortunately East was the director and applied the rule which
means she retracts the pass card but has to pass when it is her turn
to bid. West opens 1D.
N E S W
1D
?
Given that your partner is forced to pass on the first round of the
auction, what do you do?

Call another director, if you can. N has UI (thus mustn't, e.g.,
underbid due to the pass), and S is forced to make a bid that shows a
hand that would pass on opening bid or else bar N from the auction, but
S isn't forced to pass outright. The relevant Laws are 16C2 restricting
N and 30B1 restricting S.
If you have to go with the ruling given, though, it's clearly a pure
guess. I guess 4H, but I wouldn't criticise someone for guessing 3NT or
(as it's matchpoints) 1H. (1H is awkward for the opponents as they have
the choice of passing it out, with 1H almost certainly making and a
partscore quite possibly being the limit of the hand, or else bidding
something and letting your partnership back into the auction.)
--
ais523

I may have misinterpreted the ruling, but with the laughing and joking around the table it wasn't easy to focus. I was under the impression that partner would have to take an action consistent with the pass, so if I overcall 1H she has to pass or make a weak raise, if I double, heaven only knows, can she bid a suit as cheaply as possible to show < 8 HCP should LHO pass?

I ended up taking a punt and bid 4H, thinking it will either be a top or a bottom. Of course it is a bottom, partner held 832 64 T972 KT42 so that was two down.

[ais523]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
I may have misinterpreted the ruling, but with the laughing and joking
around the table it wasn't easy to focus. I was under the impression
that partner would have to take an action consistent with the pass, so
if I overcall 1H she has to pass or make a weak raise, if I double,
heaven only knows, can she bid a suit as cheaply as possible to show
< 8 HCP should LHO pass?

Yes. Any bid that could not be made while holding an opening hand is
legitimate. X would likely work out quite well as a result, because the
response to X normally shows less than an opening hand.

[Lorne]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
MPs, game all
You hold as North AK KJT32 AK 8763.
Partner puts a pass card down, then is informed that West was the dealer. Fortunately East was the director and applied the rule which means she retracts the pass card but has to pass when it is her turn to bid. West opens 1D.
N E S W
1D
?
Given that your partner is forced to pass on the first round of the auction, what do you do?

I would bid 3N. I think it has better chances than 4H as it also makes
when we have some values and a heart fit whereas 4H will often fail with
3N making if partner has some values but no fit.

Interesting to consider what actions would be deemed illegal given the
UI about partner passing. eg 1N for example.

[Douglas Newlands]

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
MPs, game all
You hold as North AK KJT32 AK 8763.
Partner puts a pass card down, then is informed that West was the
dealer. Fortunately East was the director and applied the rule which
means she retracts the pass card but has to pass when it is her turn
to bid. West opens 1D.
    N   E   S   W
                1D
    ?
Given that your partner is forced to pass on the first round of the
auction, what do you do?

I would bid 3N.  I think it has better chances than 4H as it also makes
when we have some values and a heart fit whereas 4H will often fail with
3N making if partner has some values but no fit.
Interesting to consider what actions would be deemed illegal given the
UI about partner passing. eg 1N for example.

This is pairs and not teams so I am not sure why there is any premium
in punting an unlikely game. You and west have 30+hcp so the other two
have an expectation of 5 and no game.
At pairs, a positive score is your first concern and 1NT seems an LA.

doug

[Hotzenplotz]

Post by Douglas Newlands

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
MPs, game all
You hold as North AK KJT32 AK 8763.
Partner puts a pass card down, then is informed that West was the
dealer. Fortunately East was the director and applied the rule which
means she retracts the pass card but has to pass when it is her turn
to bid. West opens 1D.
    N   E   S   W
                1D
    ?
Given that your partner is forced to pass on the first round of the
auction, what do you do?

I would bid 3N.  I think it has better chances than 4H as it also makes
when we have some values and a heart fit whereas 4H will often fail with
3N making if partner has some values but no fit.
Interesting to consider what actions would be deemed illegal given the
UI about partner passing. eg 1N for example.

This is pairs and not teams so I am not sure why there is any premium
in punting an unlikely game. You and west have 30+hcp so the other two
have an expectation of 5 and no game.
At pairs, a positive score is your first concern and 1NT seems an LA.
doug

This.

[Lorne]

Post by Douglas Newlands

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
MPs, game all
You hold as North AK KJT32 AK 8763.
Partner puts a pass card down, then is informed that West was the
dealer. Fortunately East was the director and applied the rule which
means she retracts the pass card but has to pass when it is her turn
to bid. West opens 1D.
    N   E   S   W
                1D
    ?
Given that your partner is forced to pass on the first round of the
auction, what do you do?

I would bid 3N.  I think it has better chances than 4H as it also
makes when we have some values and a heart fit whereas 4H will often
fail with 3N making if partner has some values but no fit.
Interesting to consider what actions would be deemed illegal given the
UI about partner passing. eg 1N for example.

This is pairs and not teams so I am not sure why there is any premium
in punting an unlikely game. You and west have 30+hcp so the other two
have an expectation of 5 and no game.
At pairs, a positive score is your first concern and 1NT seems an LA.
doug

I agree and without UI I may well bid 1N but my belief is that 3N is a
LA and clearly not the bid suggested by the UI so I am certain I will
keep my score (good or bad) if I bid 3N but I think I will lose it if I
bid 1N and that is correct.

Of those posting here Bertel seems to me to have the best handle on the
laws so I would be interested in what he would do as a director if I bid
1N on this hand and no game makes.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Lorne
I agree and without UI I may well bid 1N but my belief is that 3N is a
LA and clearly not the bid suggested by the UI so I am certain I will
keep my score (good or bad) if I bid 3N but I think I will lose it if I
bid 1N and that is correct.

To make a proper ruling I need four to six players of the same
strength as North so I can ask them what they would do on the
North hand if West opens 1D (no mention of South's error). That
would tell me what there are of logical alternatives. And I need
the full deal to be sure of my ruling.

Since an opening pass in my system shows 0-10 points, it is
impossible for North to tell from the UI if game is on or not.
Therefore I don't see 1NT as clearly suggested by the UI.

This is true even if your presuppose that South must pass (as
according to the wrong ruling).

Post by Lorne
Of those posting here Bertel seems to me to have the best handle on the
laws so I would be interested in what he would do as a director if I bid
1N on this hand and no game makes.

Probably nothing.

[Jean Pierre Fontenille]

double !

Post by a***@yahoo.co.uk
You hold as North AK KJT32 AK 8763.
Given that your partner is forced to pass on the first round of the auction, what do you do?